It's interesting to watch the language around the rumoured Nintendo Switch hardware revision(s) slowly morph from that of cautious speculation to confident prognostication. More recently its turned to downright open discussion and with Nintendo itself playing the coy 'no comment' card, the scent of new hardware is wafting in with a Mary Poppins-esque change in the wind.
Many of the rumours and nuggets of information should be digested with a fistful of sodium, of course, but when Digital Foundry's Technology Editor, head boffin and all-round nice bloke Rich Leadbetter publishes something on the subject, it's worth paying attention. Just before E3 he was discussing the feasibility of a Witcher 3 Switch port and, lo and behold, it was announced during the Nintendo Direct.
Leadbetter has been looking at a new revision of the Tegra X1 (the basis of the mobile processor buried inside Switch, as well as Nvidia's Shield Android TV). The chip found in the current console is the 't210' but Nintendo added support for a revision - the 't214' - when it released firmware version 5.0 back in March 2018.
The Tegra codenames come from the names of superheroes (the Tegra X1 was 'Erista', the supposed son of Wolverine) and the 't214' is called 'Mariko' (a Japanese character who was a flame for Logan), the implication being that this is a sort of 'partner' chip rather than a total revision.
Doing some digging to find out more about this chip, Leadbetter discovered that Mariko and another X1 variant, the 't210b01' featured in an upcoming revision of Shield Android TV, are actually the same processor and, that being the case, the Switch firmware has supported a chip found in the upgraded Shield Android TV for over a year now.
Why is this significant? Well, while Mariko isn't the Tegra X2, it does seem to offer minor upgrades to the original processor (in addition to presumably closing the security hole discovered in the original). Specifically, after studying the specs Leadbetter believes that Mariko is likely manufactured using the more modern 16 nanometer fabrication process rather than the X1's 20nm design. Smaller chips require less voltage to run meaning better battery life and cooler running, in addition to a modest performance increase thanks to the higher frequencies the smaller design enables. Here's Rich's explanation:
With regards t210b01's improvements, higher clocks and lower voltages suggest a drop from a 20nm processor design down to 16nm FinFET instead - but Tegra X1 was always an outlier, a production chip running on an experimental fabrication process Nvidia never chose to pursue for its mainstream GPUs - and I wonder if the firm is following the same procedure with its replacement, mitigating the cost of exploring 7nm technology by sharing costs with Nintendo. Only a teardown of the new Switch revision(s) will give us the physical dimensions that allow us to firmly identify how the t210b01/t214 is manufactured, but the increase in clocks seen in the DVFS tables would likely favour 16nmFF, a mature process and a good fit for a mass-produced console.
Looking at the specs, Leadbetter notes that Mariko supports all the clock speed modes of the current console and more, and while performance enhancements would be minimal, there are still potential gains to be had:
And it's important to note is that the evidence does suggest that t210b01 is fully compatible with the original Tegra X1 - the DVFS table for the new chip lists all of the clock speed modes available, not just the maximums, and the modes used in existing Switch games are all in the line-up - it's just that this list is longer, with more frequencies supported at the higher end. And with that in mind, standard Switch performance could likely be achieved with no cooling assembly required at all, meaning that a prospective Switch mini wouldn't just be smaller with more battery life, it could be silent too. Meanwhile, a decent performance uplift on the GPU side could obviously improve frame-rates and image quality in a range of games using dynamic resolution scaling. Based on the clocks in Nvidia's documents (though again, this may be outdated info) there wouldn't be a revelatory increase in system performance - nothing like a generational leap as such, or even anything as profound as the jump from 3DS to New 3DS, but it would still be a valuable addition.
It seems, then, that something is afoot, and with numbers to back up the various whispers and listings that have been cropping up over the past few weeks, it's surely just a matter of time until we get a surprise 2DS-style announcement (although it'll be less of a surprise this time round). Be sure to check out Rich's original article for a far more in-depth analysis, or watch the video below if all those words are a bit much for a Friday. Exciting times ahead!
Looking at the mounting evidence, do you think 'Mariko' could be part of a prospective Switch 'Mini' or Switch 'Pro'? Let us know your thoughts below.
[source eurogamer.net]
Comments 74
Bored of these rumours now.
Just tell us when Nintendo confirm the Mini and Pro
So was it annouced or not? I don't read the articles anymore cause it's just more speculation and rumors.
It's Pro or nothing for me. I don't need a cheaper price/made mini where i can't replace sticking buttons and worn out joysticks aka non detachable joycons. I do need a pro with an improved GPU & CPU, 64gb internal storage and two microsd card slots and perhaps a OLED display.
It will be a custom chip specifically designed for Nintendo names "Super Mariko Odyssey"
I wish they’d just announce it if they have something coming. I’m planning on buying my sister a Switch for Fire Emblem next month, but if a revision is coming out, I could just upgrade mine and give her my old one. I hate having that uncertainty when buying a console.
I’m actually less convinced of a Switch Pro reading this. You’d expect a Pro version to have a bigger jump in performance than the one described. Mini still sounds like it could be a goer though...
@Xelha These articles are almost daily.
Someday one of these articles will be right, ofcourse.
But for now. Nope.
As I was saying, the Pro will just be a slight boost - not a generation leap that will be Switch 2.
My best guess. This is for the mini. The 16nm chips require less power and run cooler. This means that potentially the Switch Mini won't need a cooling fan, less space required.
The potential jump in clock speed isn't really big enough to warrant a Pro version but may also be for better battery life on a standard Switch revision.
@PhilMyth Exactly my thought. This is most likely about batter battery life or the removal of a large cooling system with a fan. All fits into a mini systems design.
If this is true it has to be a mini. You cannot market this as a pro. Consumers expect a lot more than better battery life and maybe higher frame rates for a couple of titles when you use that or a similiar moniker.
The more these articles pop up the more I'm convinced it's not worth the wait to buy a 'Pro' model to replace my broken Switch tbh.
That 20nm process has got to go, that's for sure.
Whilst this is all now massively boring i will just say that if it a chip with only 'slightly' better performance i see absolutely no point in doing it. Why create a new system/molding etc for a slight incerase. Nobody will buy it or want it unless of course you do not yet own a switch.
So the mini wouldn’t have much of a jump in power, but if they made a pro, what would that do?
They better increase PRO to 128GB and better Nvidia chip since Tegra X1 is weak. It will give great opportunity for 3rd party supporting for a brand new AAA games instead of too many ports. Nintendo, woke up because new XBOX and PS5 are coming next year.
It needs to be the X2 (or better).
I still wish they'd throw Apple some games/controller for the Apple TV and get Apple's ARM chips. I'm not a big Apple fan but they make the best ARM chips in the business and N would be a perfect match for an Apple partnership.
And no, the ps5/XB12 or whatever isn't coming out next year. 2021 at least. But N does need to get their heads outta the sand.. HAHA. They've been buried so long they have no clue what's going on outside of their HQ. Terrible management all around.
Rumourlife.com
@azoreseuropa Nintendo rarely cares about what the other guys do. If they did they wouldn't have made the Switch, but something like the other two guys.
I don't need a new Switch...but my wife does!
I've already posted this on the forum a while back but there is a new revision of the Tegra X1 and we already know what's different there.
https://www.xda-developers.com/nvidia-shield-android-tv-refreshed-tegra-x1/
@DanTheSausage
sounds good for a switch mini. The new switch should be much more powerful imo and be released within the next year-ish imo.
but this is Nintendo and strategy is not their strong suit.
If Mariko is a partner chip for Logan I wonder if it would be in the dock of the Pro model. In handheld mode it would be the same as the mini but it would allow them to push more pixels when it's being output to a TV and needs the extra resolution. If they did the checkerboard rendering like the PS4 Pro does they could probably make it look great on a 4K screen.
Genuinely confused why people think Nintendo will deliver a doubly powerful Switch. A generation is a generation
@NinChocolate because literally every portable they've ever had prior to switch?
@hihelloitsme ?
@sword_9mm You've got that right. Those arms are absolute beasts.
Switch needs to grow into x2 and beyond territory. Everyone knows, it's just about business sense and fragmentation to nintendo... I hope that - whatever they choose to do - they'll make switch live long and prosper
Who knows. We will see when ever it is released. But Nintendo usually goes in a direction not taken.
If Switch Mini uses this new chip w/ no cooling in a Vita like form factor I guess it's more for adult gamers than a Switch Mini that looks like a 2DS for the kids.
Maybe they'll market a nice Switch Vita for adults adan give the kdis these old Switch but in a portabale version without a dock so it's at least affordable?
Still expecting a September announcement for a launch alongside Pokemon. So NL readers better get used to a daily article for another 2 months at least. But ti's coming. Don't think we'll get a Pro though, not yet.
Pro would make sense next holiday when PS5 and Scarlett launch.
Reeeeeach! REEEEEACH! Gotta grasp at them straws! These articles take no effort, as oppose to doing articles about the plethora of awesome games on Switch right now!
@erv
with the chips they are using there shouldn't be much if any fragmentation. All s1 games work on s2. then in a year or so s2 games are too complex for s1 and that one goes to the bargain pile. 3 years or so pass and s3 comes out hewing to the same cycle.
it's what PCs have been doing forever and what ios/android/MS/Sony are doing. I get that N is lost most of the time but this seems like a no-brainer.
then again there ain't much brain @ N HQ so it makes sense that they wouldn't do this.
Also should've partnered with Valve for the online back-end instead of making yet another terribad infrastructure. these guys never learn.
I’ll wait for the next Switch 2 if the upgraded model only offers the slight improvements mentioned here. Nintendo is its own arena for first party games, but in the case of new 3rd party games that will change fast. I disagree with the notion that the Switch’s appeal is down to 1st party games. Nintendo needs to drive software sales for new 3rd party games in the months where there are no new Nintendo games.
They need to maintain the appeal of their consoles to people who are not only down for new Mario games. They have done it this year, but without a significant hardware revision it will be harder and harder to do in the future.
@graysoncharles I was obviously talking in respect of a pro model.
@graysoncharles the only one of those by Nintendo was the new 3DS and it very little to most 3DS games and let you play a handful of extra games.
Which sounds like the plan for the Switch too.
@sword_9mm
Nintendo isn't going to release new Switch revisions every year, and certainly not revisions that make their immediate predecessors irrelevant.
And seeing how well the Switch and its software has sold, I'd say they had a great strategy with the Switch, and they executed that strategy very well.
"Also should've partnered with Valve for the online back-end instead of making yet another terribad infrastructure. these guys never learn."
Nintendo will partner with Valve for anything when Half Life 3 is released
@westman98
Not every year; i'd say every 3 years would be a good cadence.
they don't have to keep up with 300watt consoles with fans and all that but with arm chips being quickly updated there's no reason to keep on old tech for the usual 5-8 year cycle. that's madness and will fail them eventually.
portability will only take them so far when everyone is on a ps6 and n just brought out a switch 2 with almost ps4 level graphics.... :/
HAHAHAHAHA, Nintendo Life misinforming as it's usual. The MARIKO chip is used to prevent hacking the console. Nintendo and Nvidia made this revision to all Switch hardware manufactured and released since 2018. That's the only change o the board, since the overclocking feature and other enhancements to the console are done through updates, otherwise the models produced for and during 2017 wouldn't benefit from thos upgrades. You guys at Nintendo Life follow the hacking scene a lot, you should know better than that guy from Digital Foundry.
@sword_9mm
"portability will only take them so far"
Yes, the company that has dominated the portable gaming space since 1989 will only go "so far" with portability. I suppose you are one of those who think Switch/Switch Mini/Switch Pro (or whatever they are actually called) sales will magically "fall off a cliff" the moment the new $500+ consoles launch next year.
The point is that people don't actually care about what processor is used in the Switch. What matters is that the Switch continues to get a large amount of compelling 1st party exclusive content, with some key 3rd party titles here and there to fill in the gaps.
A less expensive mini makes a lot of sense business-wise, but I don't know why people keep calling the 2nd rumored version a Pro model. They don't have to do that. As others have said it could just be a revision with the same form factor and look albeit featuring better battery life, slightly higher performance, etc. They would keep it the same price and if people really want to replace their older model they can, but it wouldn't be required. The likely bump in sales from the mini version would be enough. Otherwise it's business as usual.
"using the more modern 16 nanometer fabrication process"
The SD845 is 10nm. All the new AMD tech inis PS5/PC is 7nm.
This is all old tech, can't make "pro" anything with it. Even the X2 is not at PS4 levels at 15W
This will give better battery life and less heat. The X1 is under clocked now. So if they reduce thermal they could up the core speed with same cooling. Or a longer more frequent boost. perfect for a MINI.
The TEGRA business is in the toilet. They should jump ship with Switch 2. EXYNOS+RADEON is the future.
@westman98
eventually all sales fall off. or is the 3ds still killing it?
N made a portable device. I see it as a portable device, NOT a home console no matter what N want's to market it as. I'd just like to see a faster upgrade cycle because graphics/scope do matter even if some folks are still happy playing ps1 games.
i'd like to see better graphics/frame rates with faster loading. they really need to work on their flash memory controllers in the next iteration. the switch is dog slow reading from non volatile memory. also probably needs around 8GB of ram next time. i'm fine with 720 portable/1080 docked resolution.
@graysoncharles absolutely, but not to the extent of some people’s expectations with a new 1080p display or base PS4 power or whatever substantial leap people are thinking.
@westman98 You're absolutely right, the Switch is selling better and better. It's funny how people think the "pro" versions of the other consoles are the best selling of their line of family products. How wrong they are. Only an extremely reduced portion of PS4 owner actually have a Pro. The Japanese charts give us a better look on that difference. The PS4 Pro was made in order to sell the basic model cheaper, and also the Slim, so those are the ones that sell the most.
@sword_9mm What you're describing is a sound strategy if the goal was to keep the hardware current and state of the art - as you say, PCs have been doing this for years. This runs counter to Nintendo's strategy, which has always been lateral thinking with mature technology. Nintendo is not a state of the art electronics company, they're a company that takes existing and well-known technology that can be mass produced cheaply and repurposes it for profit.
@BacklogBlues and don't forget more RAM. 4gb won't cut it with the future games. XBox Scarlett PS5 they all will be miles better. Nintendo better up their game before they become the real Indie hardware with their own A++ titles. We need better hardware to be more futureproof. I don't get it why they keep staying low
@sword_9mm
3DS sales naturally declined after Year 3 due to age and the rapid growth of mobile gaming (which has now kinda halted), and collapsed in 2018 once Nintendo shifted all their relevant 1st party software to Switch.
Switch hardware and software sales are considerably stronger than that of the 3DS, and that's without any serious price activity or new revisions (yet).
@NinChocolate people said the switch was much closer to the original Xbox one at launch than the wii u. How is someone asking for the switch to be updated to Xbox one levels asking slot from a revision? It sure sounds like some people either don't want to upgrade or don't like the idea of others playing the same games with better frame rates and or resolution boosts.
@NoxAeturnus
I guess you'll need to tell Apple/Samsung to stop making new phones every year then.
It wouldn't be a race to performance. It would be a nice bump every few years with the better thermal/power performance to boot. Since the Switch is just N's new gameboy battery life is and should be a concern. If say an X2/more ram/maybe lower powered oled screen can get graphics/worlds to look nicer/run smoother and also bumps the battery life a bit then it's a win-win for both N and the consumer.
@sixrings
I'd say the switch is closer to the 360 than the wii-u was. The wii-u was notoriously bad at large scenes with many enemies/characters. The CPU was just junk. The wii-u was a wii+ with a better gpu and another gimick controller. If the wii-u actually used a decent CPU it would've outpaced the 360 by quite a bit.
The switch is like a 360+. Better at some things and worse at others. It's nowhere near an xb1.
@sword_9mm See that's your mistake is what I'm saying. Nintendo isn't Samsung or Apple. Samsung and Apple have a very effective strategy, but it's wholly different from how Nintendo operates. Could that strategy be effective for Nintendo? Maybe, but it's also hard to argue that Nintendo's current strategy isn't working out. I don't see Nintendo changing the way they fundamentally design and manage their hardware and revisions so long as their current strategy remains profitable, regardless of what other tech companies are doing.
@NoxAeturnus
Not to mention that Apple/Samsung make phones, which are necessities for most of the modern world. Nintendo makes video game systems, which are luxuries that most people don't need.
@YANDMAN
I have a switch, I would buy this as soon as pre orders go live if its smaller. As a 36 year old man I don't like whipping out that giant tablet when i wanna burn a few hours on a plane or something, a smaller one will move as there are a lot of us out there who would love a smaller more practical design.
I piti the foo' who doesn't buy one these! I piti the foo'!
And as always when there is talk about a new Nintendo machine, the armchair generals are coming out of hiding to start talking about how little Nintendo know about the business of video games.
Interesting commentary indeed, but this is still all just speculation. I'll wait for the actual announcements.
For the record if Xbox one x didn't exist I wouldn't have bought a Xbox. Upgrades do make sales.
You're damned if you do
You're damned if you don't
@Agramonte I don't think that's a good idea. Having two separate components like that would require more space in the console. The Switch itself is already fairly big. The main draw of the Tegra was that it was a combined CPU and graphics card with a small form factor.
If anything, they should partner with Intel, whom is doing a lot of R&D for combined CPU and graphics chips. Downside is that price could be prohibitive especially considering this is Intel we're talking about.
EDIT: Hm...it looks like the chips have both combined. I guess that could work though licensing could be an issue depending on how the antitrust case goes with Qualcomm. The appeals process could take a very long time.
Maybe this is the chip going into the “Mini” but it would be highly disappointing if this is the “Pro” chip
@sword_9mm uhh...Xbox already said Scarlett is being released holiday of 2020. So yes, it will be our next year.
All this talk about specs, I just want good games in a nice package. If I wanted a specs beast, I'll turn on my PC and play on that.....
Also I just wanna say people loved the Gameboy, but it ran on a chip big in the early 80's
@graysoncharles
Yep, that's my thinking.
Folks want to cling on to the things as long as possible.
I think 3 years is plenty for a low powered ARM device. Maybe a 500$ x86 should go longer but for a portable 'phone' 3 is plenty of time.
Heck, no reason N can't make an S2 base package for say 249 (sans dock/etc) for those just upgrading and another sku for new folks that want all the bobbins (299+ or whatever). Don't change the controllers/dock/etc. Just update the system internals/screen (for power savings) every 3ish years.
@Arehexes
Yes but people were very happy to get the GBA.
No reason they can't make games work with the S1 and 2. Heck, most are download anyway (since N brought back the cart tax) so no reason you can't say get BOTW2 in a 9gb S1 download or pick the 15GB S2 package or whatever.
@sword_9mm Bad example, cause a lot of people was unhappy with the lack of a back light on the gba (also blocking people from uploading Poke'mon from Poke'mon Crystal). Also it ran on a older cpu compared to other systems out around that same time. Nintendo has the games that sells well on their systems. Every handheld generation they were using old tech, or not as great tech. However they came out on top, that's why I don't get the point of people freaking out over specs so hard. If I wanted to play The Witcher 3 and I worry abiut the specs of all my systems I'm gonna play it on my PC with real 4K. Not a PS4 Pro, not a Xbox One X, ajd not a Switch. I prefer my Switch cause I can take it with me in my home or out of my home. If Nintendo were to keep with Tegra chips then yes there would be no reason why the Switch couldn't do backwards compatibllity. It's just good god, the damn thing isn't out (or any real information) and people freak out about every scrap of 'news' that sites like this are a part of the problem of.
@Arehexes
Yeah I get you there. Sites have to put something on the page for clicks though.
This chip, if used by Nintendo, points more towards a mini(2/3DS replacement). It sounds like it closes the code hole and allows for a fan less design which fits a handheld structure.
@Ernest_The_Crab Yeah it is a "system on a chip". Samsung will just license ARM & AMD and make a sandwich design. They investing 118B into the chip business.
Well Intel is also experimenting with AMD VEGA on joint ventures. But they stuck at 45W!
https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/products/docs/processors/core/8th-gen-core-family-mobile-brief.html
Yep. Intel prices are crazy!!! and doubt they would ever license ARM or go into RISC chips at all. They basically given up on Mobile after the ATOM Sofia core debacle.
Good point on Qualcomm,... that will take years!
@PhilMyth This is actually a pretty significant jump.
The current X1 in the Switch is severally performance gimped for thermal control and battery life.
The X1 is capable of running at for example 1 GHz, but is throttled to just around 500 MHz handheld and around 700 MHz when docked.
With the new 7nm process version of the X1 they can push it to the limit more easily and squeeze out more batterylife, since its much more energy efficient.
So able to run at 1 GHz docked, is a 30-35% performance increase and able to get another hour or two extra batterylife handheld is also significant.
This means that current games that are struggling with long loading times, framerates and heavy resolution scaling will provide a much more stable and pleasant experience!
That is more than enough and they will get my money instantly for this!
@Dilated A 36 year old man that plays video games?
@YANDMAN
Um....yea, that places me squarely in the average gamer demographic. A precursory google search will show you a survey result from 2018 “Gamers age 18 or older represent 72 percent of the video game-playing population, and the average gamer is 35 years old.Jun 29, 2018”
It’s a hobby like any other, not sure what you are confused about.
I can attest as you age you play far less than when you are a kid since work and everyday life sucks the soul out of you until you are dead and rotting but, there you have it.
@Dilated That was actually a joke, but i liked the way that you backed up your existence with a google poll. Nothing sucks anyones soul from anything, you simply are not nourishing it or are giving up. This is the flaw of humans generally.
@YANDMAN
-Your fiancée of 8 years cheating on you with your co-workers, then marrying your boss.
-your grandparents dying that same year.
-friends betraying you
-The opiate addiction that once numbed the pain and recovery that took several years.
-living alone after losing everyone you’ve ever cared about, not making new friends because I’m so detached from emotion.
-That numb feeling I live with every day I wake.
There’s more, a lot more, deaths, some went to prison, job and home losses ect.
I don’t believe in an actual soul, but what I said was more a metaphor. To make a comment that “Nothing sucks anyone’s soul from anything” tells me you’ve yet to hit that point in life where it stops giving you things and starts taking them away. Wait til your parents die, or worse then come on here acting like an axxhole.
@Dilated Those are some very tough consequences to of been dealt nobody could be silly enough to think otherwise, but dont assume that because someone has strength or rather has found it that they too have not suffered. pain isn't a competiton anyone wants to win.
@Arehexes
Yeah, perhaps.
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