Patents are always a rather intriguing thing to track in the technology industry - sometimes they represent ideas and products that'll never see the light of day, but there are occasions when they give clues to future releases. A freshly released US patent application could be the latter, as it addresses technology that could allow Nintendo to boost visuals in its hardware.
Opened on 25th March 2020 and released publicly yesterday (30th September), the application is titled 'systems and methods for machine learned image conversion', and though the initial language can be a headscratcher it is essentially an idea similar to NVIDIA's DLSS. That's short for Deep Learning Super Sampling in NVIDIA's case, which works on some of its GPUs to upscale image resolution and quality in real time, while also being remarkably efficient and ensuring that the graphics card is under less strain. It's impressive technology, and it's been front and centre in a lot of talk about how Nintendo could produce a new Switch-style portable device that outputs higher resolution visuals while still working with low power output. Digital Foundry has explored this in detail.
What makes this application intriguing is that Nintendo is clearly exploring this internally - a named party on the application is Alexandre Delattre, who is a co-founder of Nintendo European Research and Development. It's also acknowledged in the 'Introduction' of the patent that this is an area being explored throughout the industry:
Machine learning can give computers the ability “learn” a specific task without expressly programming the computer for that task. One type of machine learning system is called convolutional neural networks (CNNs)—a class of deep learning neural networks. Such networks (and other forms of machine learning) can be used to, for example, help with automatically recognizing whether a cat is in a photograph. The learning takes places by using thousands or millions of photos to “train” the model to recognize when a cat is in a photograph. While this can be a powerful tool, the resulting processing of using a trained model (and training the model) can still be computationally expensive when deployed in a real-time environment.
Image up-conversion is a technique that allows for conversion of images produced in a first resolution (e.g., 540p resolution or 960×540 with 0.5 megapixels) to a higher resolution (e.g., 1080p resolution, 1920×1080, with 2.1 megapixels). This process can be used to show images of the first resolution on a higher resolution display. Thus, for example, a 540p image can be displayed on a 1080p television and (depending on the nature of the up-conversion process) may be shown with increased graphical fidelity as compared to if the 540p image were displayed directly with traditional (e.g., linear) upscaling on a 540 television. Different techniques for image up-conversion can present a tradeoff between speed (e.g., how long the process takes for converting a given image) and the quality of the up-converted image. For example, if a process for up-converting is performed in real-time (e.g., such as during a video game), then the image quality of the resulting up-converted image may suffer.
Accordingly, it will be appreciated that new and improved techniques, systems, and processes are continually sought after in these areas of technology.
Ultimately it shouldn't be a surprise that Nintendo is researching upscaling through machine learning, as it is likely to be a vital factor should the company opt to retain a Switch-style form factor while offering greater graphical fidelity in the future. Whether Nintendo will still utilise NVIDIA technology in future devices is also interesting; if it develops its own solution it may not need NVIDIA's DSSL tools. Of course, depending on what and who you believe, there are reports that '4K' development units are already out in the wild.
Let us know what you think in the comments!
[source freepatentsonline.com]
Comments 81
Pretty ironic, after what news came of that yesterday.
Oh Nintendo...
So yes, 11 devs are working on 4K games then. I wasn’t a believer but this is clear proof.
This will probably fuel even more switch pro rumors.
They will never end, will they?
In my mind this is a dock or links to the dock so it upscales for the TV?
@NintendoKnight I get your point, but not really. This is an interesting tangible bit of information that shows Nintendo is working on its own versions of this technology. Whether you believe the latest rumours about 4K dev kits is up to you but isn't really linked imo.
TVs upscale lower resolution signals anyway. Upscaled images are - for the most part - jarring and distracting, and I hate them. I'd rather see textures take a hit over resolution or frame rate.
Nintendo should devote more R&D to mastering 1080p rather than pursuing the UHD rat race.
Interesting, if this actually forms into something, that would be cool, but I recommend people to not get their hopes up. Patents don't always because a real product, so I advise not taking this as immediate proof of a Switch Pro. If anything, it would be a next gen console with backwards compatibility with the Switch.
Unfortunately we may never see Tetris 99 in 4K 😔
@NintendoKnight I haven’t heard about what you are referencing. What news?
Hehe hehe.. N.E.R.D, everytime it makes me chuckle.
This would be a neat feature for when the playing the switch in handheld but at home.
Maybe hyrule warriors would be stable
@Silly_G
Yes, but a Switch in handheld mode obviously can't do that on its own.
And upscaling features on TV sets can introduce latency that interfere with gameplay, which is exactly why Game mode exists.
The examples cited in the article make clear that this is to benefit games that run below the device's maximum resolution, rather than trying to achieve higher resolutions than the system's resources are capable of.
In short, this is a way to compensate for games that run at lower internal resolutions, by a very smart method of extrapolating detail.
Give me my pixelated graphics!!! All this fancy schmancy "upscaling".... no good.
Well no duh! It's called progress and you can't stop it as long as people are creating new technology.
@NintendoKnight I was thinking this.
Let’s be honest. There is probably lots of truth to everything Bloomberg has reported on. It’s just a matter of does Nintendo put this system out or drop it. But if third party devs really are being told to develop for it sounds like a done deal.
@Silly_G
ditto.
i feel like "not being 4k" is on the lower end of the hardware limitations when there are quite a few 3rd party ports which have trouble maintaining 720p and a consistent 30fps.
then again quite a few games on ps4 pro have both "performance" and "visual" modes which is something i hope would be common in a theoretical switch revision/successor
@ThomasBW84 Indeed most likely this will be used in the next gen Nintendo console. Also a lot of Nintendo patents never make it into actual hardware.
Maybe this is all about making current gen Switch games compatible with the next generation console.
It's pretty clear that this tech has nothing to do with the Switch... but that the development of Nintendo's next system has begun.
(I'm not ready to say goodbye to Switch though 🥺)
@BloodNinja its about nintendo rejects Bloomberg news on the rumored switch pro and all that.
@meeto_1 "Lots of truth", where? You probably think Santa is real too?
Nintendo HDS is confirmed ! (Playing both Switch, 3DS and NDS games)
Let’s just get this out of the way now. The Switch Pro just isn’t ever going to happen. Will the NEXT Nintendo system be 4K? Of course. But it just isn’t happening for the Switch.
@Rpg-lover Thank you
@CharlieGirl I think the nature of Switch being a portable console too means that it can exist alongside a successor console just like DS and 3DS did for multiple console generations. 😃 but we’ll probably have updates like DS Lite or New 3DS.
It's funny to see how people don't understand what they read. This technology actually means Nintendo is working on something quite unique in terms of processing power, more software based than on hardware.
Both patents explicitly single out Nvidia's Tensor cores (i.e. the processors used to run DLSS) as hardware that can accelerate all the necessary matrix multiplication calculations involved in the upscaling algorithm.
Makes sense, as the patents effectively describe how DLSS works.
@Silly_G Well, the introduction text has an example of upscaling from 540p to 1080p, so this is not only limited to 4K. However, if they do actually plan to use machine learning for the task (like Nvidia's DLSS and Intel's XeSS do), then the results might not be super impressive when upscaling from lower resolutions.
@Edu23XWiiU
1: cutting a quote from a single sentence and deliberately leaving out key words like “probably” is very 2021. Well done
2: Santa is 100% real.
I think this is more to upscale games that currently don’t run at 1080p and to run games that do hit 1080p at lower resolutions and upscale them to be 1080p which could then result in better frame rates. Doubt this has anything to do with the Bloomberg article from yesterday.
@HotGoomba Hahaha Tetris 99.
@Steel76 Correct my man. If they did anything with this patent its probably already in the new dock! That could be why the ability to update the dock even exists!!
The current problem with DLSS is that it has to be taught every single game it supports, it's not a switch you can just flip and it starts working in your game.
This could mean Nintendo is researching something different so that developers don't have to generate petabytes of video from their in-development game to help train the model.
Or if they are going the DLSS route, it could be the devkits are much more powerful than retail units will be so they can pump out realtime 4K visuals to use for training.
I think this is intended for Switch 2.
If they stick with nVidia there’s no doubt in my mind that Switch 2 will have some form of DLSS for docked play.
DLSS can upscale automatically, the devs don't need to do anything special, so why do they need 4K dev kits?
Btw, Machine Learning can also interpolate frames and turned 30fps to 60fps - high-end TV can already do that but the AI can generate high quality frame rates that looks like native 60fps. So even if the Switch runs a game at 720p @30fps it can be turned into 4K 60fps with Machine Learning.
"Whether Nintendo will still utilise NVIDIA technology in future devices is also interesting; if it develops its own solution it may not need NVIDIA's DSSL tools."
Are you joking? Nintendo can't build ML hardware, Nvidia is still the king in ML hardware. In fact I think Nintendo signed the contract with Nvidia years ago because of their ML expertise, they had the road map planned. They knew the tech they need for a portable to go 4K down the road, it can't be done by brute force - it needs Machine Learning.
I think we all know the OLED was meant to be a PRO.
Nintendo sent dev kits to a few developers last year. Supply constraints worsened... Nintendo revised approach. Announced an OLED model.
If we still see a Switch Pro, I would be surprised. I think the tech may just be implemented in the next console. Whether its a Super Switch or simply a new piece of hardware.
The theory supports both "Nintendo's PR" and rumours in my mind. Dev kits usually go out a year+ before consumers get their hands on the retail version.
Not this crap again
Switch Pro confirmed... right?
Hey, what if instead of being for the nonexistent Switch Pro it might actually be technology for their next gen console?
At this point I'd rather have them prepare the Switch successor than a more powerful revision of the Switch.
Like I said the next Switch is going to have 4k/DLSS options but NintenDoomed fandom keep harping gutter trash in hopes they will survive. The form factor will stay and is not going away.
Wasn’t Resident Evil Revelations for the 3DS developed in HD?
I thought it was normal for Devs to develop in Higher Fidelity, then down scale
Switch Pro confirmed. Launching Q2 2022 with exclusive Silksong and Persona 5, NSO swapped for Game Pass. Supports themes, folders and joycon stick autocleaning.
More fuel for the pro rumours, woopeedoooo
@CharlieGirl I honestly can't see myself being excited for any Nintendo console that's not a hybrid design.
I find the handheld, motion controls, and VR platforms to have limited appeal, and the home platform already has plenty of choice.
I either need a Switch 2 with full Switch BC, or I am sticking with what I've got until I'm completely bored with the content that's already on the system.
(either that or move to steam deck).
@Meteoroid My bad, I thought the fairly recent Digital Foundry video where they swapped the DLSS DLL for Doom Eternal with the one from Rainbow Six was because it had been trained differently. It turns out it was a newer version of DLSS!
@nhSnork Supports themes, folders and joycon stick autocleaning.
That would be welcomed as one can transfer data from one switch to another without using WIFI NSA to do transfer-if it comes to pass.
Obviously a N3DS equivalent for a Switch model is in the works. This was never in question. Upscaling either with Nvidia technology or their own in-house designs is the clear way forward for Nintendo.
The biggest question is always what they choose to do given the current supply shortages for the next few years. How will these unstable times affect a Switch Pro-esque model with 4K upscaling? How will it affect the Switch's lifecycle projection? Will these next two years delay the next generation console if it delays the Switch Pro rollout?
Nintendo seems to be in a pretty strong position in context with these supply shortages. Sony and Microsoft are fighting over cutting edge chips, while Nintendo can continue pumping out software with its current technology for another year or two at least, given its new launch of the OLED model.
The biggest factor to me was showing BOTW2 in the SwitchOLED promotion. BOTW2 is very likely a winter 2022 launch, and that probably means Nintendo does not plan to release a new model in 2022 if they are promoting a winter 2022 game with the OLED Switch.
If that turns out to be true, then we're likely looking at a spring~ 2023 rollout of the next Switch model.
My hope is that this, 4K dev kits, and the new dock update feature are related. They want games to be able to be programmed their best, then they'll update the docks to use AI upscaling to run said content. That lets Nintendo be truthful when they tell their investors they aren't developing new hardware AND it doesn't screw the player base
Nintendo has the resources and brilliant technologists at its disposal, you know they’ll come up with something that stays within budgets
If they are patenting it, it feels like they intend to use their own method instead of NVIDIA's DLSS. So they won't be bound to NVIDIA chips. Nice to see Nintendo is another company working with machine learning, this has an ridiculous broad application range!
@westman98 This patent is interesting 'news'. Up until this summer, DLSS was Windows only (https://developer.nvidia.com/blog/nvidia-dlss-sdk-now-available-for-all-developers-with-linux-support-unreal-engine-5-plugin-and-new-customizable-options/). This suggests to me that were testing upscaling themselves with Nvidia's Xavier SoCs (which do have Tensor cores) back in 2019-2020. And they wrote their own equivalent of DLSS in the absence of non-windows drivers from Nvidia.
Maybe there is substance to the idea that OLED model is the plan B device, when component shortages kicked in and scuppered the Plan A 'Switch Pro'!
I wonder if Nintendo will stick with their own tech, or use DLSS for the Switch2 (or whatever it's called, probably not using the name Switch at all)?
@meeto_1 "sounds like a done deal" makes it sound like you're pretty sure it's coming. When it's all crap. The tooth fairy is real as well? Hahaha
I wouldn't be surprised if this was DLSS at a much smaller scale, as mentioned in this video that games at 540p could be upscaled to 1080p with said technology. It'll certainly help eliminate some of the issues from many of the more recent games dipping down to questionably low resolutions.
So this means that there were no 4K dev kits right?
@ModdedInkling
Yeah I was thinking that too, frankly that would be a much more interesting application than 4K which I don't really care about
@steely_pete
4k dev kits just sounds absolutely ridiculous considering the costs to make one in the first place. However, there is that possiblity of Nintendo telling developers to make their games "4k-ready" so upscaling would at least be easier. However, like you said, DLSS would be much more interesting than going straight to 4k, which is just... unnecessary
@ModdedInkling DLSS would be much more interesting than going straight to 4k, which is just... unnecessary
Not like they can't also go 4k but having a 4k/DLSS setup helps their market share grow. True 4K 60fps is only possible on Gaming Desktop/Laptop with SLI/CF setup to achieve this only. There is no other way around this - to get True 4K 60fps in real gaming sense. And only PC systems are the one holding this title. Xvox/Psvox like to claim they are but they are using DLSS for their 4K if those system was to go 4K they would need CF setup since they are using AMD GPU to achieve that but a single AMG GPU isn't going to do that without lowering resolution alot and the cooling would be massive to handle this. And I don't think those gamers would pay those massive price to have it. And to benefit this one needs 4K TV to showcase it. So it's not just the console but the TV has to be 4K not 4K ready to boost this performance.
@SwitchForce
Now one could've said it any better than you. Honestly, it bothers me so much how gamers has been so set on hardware that they completely forgot about the games themselves.
@ModdedInkling
"the techniques herein may be applied to other image sizes (e.g., 720p to 1080p; 480p to 1080p, 1080p to 1440p, 1080p to 4k/3840×2160, 720p to 4k, etc.)"
The upscaling algorithm remains the same regardless of what the input or output resolution is. This is no "DLSS Lite".
@ModdedInkling The more Graphics options Switch can output the better for gamers.
How about Nintendo figure out stable framerates before they worry about 4K.
Not switch pro news. Now my recommended videos are gonna be filled with clickbait from switch force again
@meeto_1
The third party dev that they named denied that they have a kit. Also why would they name a mobile dev if they want the article to have credibility
So the rumored switch pro will be exactly the same as oled but with upscaling tec 😂
Man do i miss the times where we had Nintendo Commercials saying "Now your playing with Power"
@The-Chosen-one
I don't think you read the details of this patent at all 😂
@westman98
Lol i was just messing arround 😛
If they can make this work i would love that.
To be blunt, I would be surprised if everyone isn't looking into this tech. It seems a no brainer to increase performance with less hardware.
@GrailUK
True, though I don't think anyone thought Nintendo of all companies would attempt to patent this kind of tech.
A lot of people don't seem to understand that "upscaling" by itself simply means "making pixels bigger". It's nothing to do with converting a game's rendering code from one video mode to another, or replacing textures with higher resolution versions, or all the other things that developers need to do to make prettier remakes of games (or often don't do).
What this patent is about is "AI-assisted image enhancement" which is a whole different subject to just upscaling. I'm guessing this is something that Nintendo want so they can automate all of that manual work of making old games look good at higher resolutions. We know Nintendo are interested in this kind of thing as they've done it on a very small scale in the 3D All-Stars version of Mario 64.
Given how Nintendo love doing remakes and backward compatibility, they're probably thinking of using something like this when porting old games to new systems, or for a Switch compatibility mode for whatever comes after the Switch. Or both.
@westman98 On the contrary, I would have thought a company that explicitly said they can't compete in a hardware race would pounce on a software solution.
@SwitchForce both the series x and ps5 can do native 4k! And they are on AMD hardware so can't use dlss! AMD version fidelity FX has only just come out and they are just starting to use it now. Far cry 6 is 4k 60 the developers have stated themselves.
Yep, we knew this a year ago.
@Serialsid Far cry 6 is 4k 60 the developers have stated themselves.
I've seen true 4k 60fps on SLI/CF system not consoles. Those system would have a meltdown pushing true 4k 60fps consistently without SLI/CF configuration. Even those system SLI/CF have issues pushing true 4K/60 fps. What they say and what system does is another thing. They probably used a SLI/CF 4K/60fps Gaming Setup Desktop/Laptop to say it can do that-because where do you think they built the game on a SLI/CF hardware not on the console. Consoles can't program or Develop the game but they can test the game but Development is done on PC hardware built to push the game to test performance and 60fps issues when running at 4K.
CNN? Sounds like fake news to me!
(it's a joke)
@Lugazz Maybe it's more of a defensive patent to stop other companies using it? They could still go with NVidia as it sounds like it can close the spec gap, but if next gen has more raw specs AND upscaling, then the gap will be larger than ever.
(Maybe)
@Ulysses I think the Switch Pro (whatever they call it) is coming like the N3DS, and that they will use games like Breath of the Wild 2 to showcase its better performance.
Breath of the Wild 2. Metroid Prime 4. The next Donkey Kong. Probably even games like Bayonetta 3, Splatoon 3, and others next year.
They can showcase them with something like, "These games will run at 60 fps, versus 30 fps.", and that alone will be enough for many. It doesn't even have to be 4K for me, if the performance is simply better.
I am a bit curious if they're even producing any more of the base unit now, which I doubt they are, and I'm guessing it's just the OLED and Switch Lites they're making now. I think they'll use the holidays to clear inventory of the old base units, keep the OLED at $350 for the holidays, then drop the OLED to $300.
I'm hoping the Steam Deck might cause a bit of a disruption, and maybe make Nintendo think about pricing going forward, because I reserved a Steam Deck because of its price and don't even plan on picking up/looking at a Switch OLED until our base unit has issues.
Now, if they announce a Switch Pro at $400, will I want it day one? Probably not if the Steam Deck works fine, and our OG Switch is still running fine, even if performance is better. Will we get it if Metroid Prime 4 is on it day one? Unfortunately, we probably will, because Nintendo knows games sell systems, and they're holding their "big" cards for the Switch Pro, I believe.
@SwitchForce no your wrong. Both machines can do true 4k, digital foundry themselves have confirmed this many times running on the consoles. Many games are confirmed to be true 4k. Some maybe 30fps and some are 60fps. Show me any evidence that these games are not running in 4k? Black ops cold War runs at 4k 60, or you can have dynamic 4k 120fps on both machines.
And your also wrong about pc's needing sli/cf to do 4k 60. A RTX 2070 super on its own can do 4k 60. Look at the benchmarks. Medium settings on apex legends is 4k 90 on this card. And this is the card many in the gaming media say the ps5 is equivalent to.
@CoffeeWithGames A Switch Pro or SNSW will not cost as much as Deck prices regardless. And it has more accessories that one can get for it.
Problem with this state:
It doesn't even have to be 4K for me, if the performance is simply better.
The next step is 4K/DLSS one can't just dismiss this. The current hardware is pushed far as it can go in v2. And the next step is GPU upgrade for portable and Dock performance. Holding system out doesn't bring in returns you either take the risk or risk loosing market share which can have negative consequences with supporters. Giving buyers a option on which platform with 4K or no 4K and Lite is the best solution for Nintendo and their fanbase and new Buyers. Sure one will sell more but then again not everyone is going to go 4K unless they play those demanding games which not everyone does. And Developers can program into the games to to 4K/DLSS or no 4K/DLSS depending on the games and the platform they use. So it's not a either or choice here-but reading what people are talking about would seems to think that's all the choices one has.
This is very good news. If you've seen how DLSS works, a lot of the times the upscaled quality is the same as native or at times even better looking. This is also sometimes the case with AMD's new FidelityFX Super Resolution, which doesn't use AI, but has their own open-source technology and uses Temporal Anti-Aliasing to clean the rest of the image up to make it look as close or better than Native as possible while giving that extra performance. I've always been an advocate of normalizing upscaled resolutions, as it benefits gamers in general, and severely benefits gamers on lower end hardware.
I use Marseilles' mClassic for my Nintendo Switch, which is a hardware addition that upscales the resolution of the Nintendo Switch. It's not the exact same as DLSS or FSR, but how much it upscales the games is amazing.
I heavily root for Nintendo to implement upscaling technology to their games and for Devs to do the same on the Nintendo Switch, therefore they can lower rendering quality to increase performance to make the experience so much more smoother and then use the upscaling technology to make the game quality look extremely close to what they envisioned it to look like, or even better. I had hoped that Devs would start using FSR for the Switch, but hearing Nintendo make patents to have their own in-house technology is even more exciting
Best to keep in mind that with patents like this, it's entirely possible that Nintendo just picked it up in case they wanted to use it.
As for what this could mean if it is implemented, I'm actually inclined that it will come into play with a Switch successor. Rather than just going for 4K, I wonder if there's a chance the technology could be used to slightly enhance visuals of Switch titles on the newer hardware. Also, I don't 100% understand how it works, but I wonder if the limited learning capabilities of the program could ever come into play with Nintendo's games.
Whatever happens, I look at Switch's current track record with new models, and don't expect any news unto 2023 at the latest. Next year's probably going to focus on whatever games they have, rather than any new tech.
@SwitchForce I don't know about the Switch versus Steam Deck on price, only because we're talking Nintendo here. They do what they want. If the market reacts poorly, like with the initial 3DS price, they might correct quickly with a price drop.
I just think the $400 price might be what they're aiming for with a "Switch Pro", because they're pricing the OLED at $350. I think they're setting any expectations of a higher powered Switch to be priced more.
If they announce the Switch Pro is $400 and it has Breath of the Wild 2, Metroid Prime 4, Splatoon 3, etc., all running better on it than the OG Switch, I think they'll try to make the case for the $400 price. Will the market be okay with that? Not entirely sure, especially if the Steam Deck takes off and has great word-of-mouth after its release, but it's going to be interesting moving forward.
And on the 4K side, I was just saying that for me personally the 4K isn't a big factor, as long as it runs the games at better fps.
@GrailUK Well that's also a possibility, yes! So other companies will have less "possibilities" to implement upscaling technology, if they don't use NVIDIA.
Either way, I believe this is beneficial to Nintendo.
They've established a deal with Nvidia ever since Switch was announced, AMD has already found way to its upscaling tech on the new consoles, it only makes sense for both Nintendo and NVIDIA to showcase what THEY can do.
I think this is basically Nintendo learning and studying DLSS with Nvidia as their teacher, like when they learned to master Unreal Engine and Unity. Besides, if you want DLSS, you need new tech, with more power included
At this point it's hard to predict what Nintendo does. They're extremely stubborn on updating their hardware. It's always been their weakness, and why the usual saying is "PlayStation and Xbox compete for the best graphics, and Nintendo will be Nintendo." They know they can rely on their IPs, and the blue ocean strategy works well for them.
I think at the same time though, they don't like the idea of the Steam Deck existing, and how bad it made their console look in terms of specs for the form factor. This is because now they can no longer rely on saying "Graphics are limited cuz our console is smol". The Steam Deck pretty much obliterated that excuse, and because of it, people are now more hungrier than ever to see cutting edge technology in a portable console. So if Nintendo actually does make a Switch pro, I assume it will be to maintain its dominance of the portable console gaming sphere. Otherwise, expect more OLED spinoff consoles, Lite spinoff consoles, gimmicks, etc to keep people distracted.
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