Soapbox features enable our individual writers and contributors to voice their opinions on hot topics and random stuff they've been chewing over. Today, it's time to celebrate Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door's Vivian, and Alana does it with Pride.
Nintendo’s track record with LGBTQIA+ characters has been… mixed, to say the least. The Big N hasn’t exactly been the most forward company in making statements, even going as far as to say “we were absolutely not trying to provide social commentary" by not giving the option for same-sex relationships in the 3DS life-simulation game Tomodachi Life back in 2014.
Birdo is the most famous example of queer representation for the company and potentially the first transgender character in a video game. The Super Mario Bros. 2 manual states that “he thinks he’s a girl” and wishes to be called Birdetta, but of course, that never happens. The line has since been removed in all re-releases. Birdo — who's known as Catherine in Japan — is now exclusively referred to as a girl. Not the best start, but it is a start.
EarthBound is a much better example, with creator Shigesato Itoi stating in an interview (translated by EarthBound Central) that, “there’s a gay person in Mother 2…In a normal, real-life society, there are gay children, and I have many gay friends as well.” The character in question is Tony, Jeff’s best friend, and while Tony’s sexuality is never explicitly stated, the subtext is clear. He clings to Jeff, offers to clean his glasses, and frequently checks in on Jeff’s quest to save the world while worrying that he’s overbearing. As Jeremy Signor puts it beautifully, “The key is to write characters so believably queer that they can’t help but represent some aspect of the queer experience.”
In the last few years, it feels like the tide is finally turning in the right direction in terms of queer representation and Nintendo. Monolith Soft and Intelligent Systems, two of Nintendo’s biggest developers, have developed games with multiple queer characters over the years. Fire Emblem: Thracia 776 features Marty and Dagdar; both characters are implied as gay and bisexual, respectively, and Marty’s ending is called “The Man Whom Dadgar Loved” (in both the fan translation and the original Japanese). Radiant Dawn’s Heather is a lesbian who joined the army to seek out cute girls. With Monolith Soft, you have Guillo from Baten Kaitos Origins, who is agender/genderqueer. The blades Roc and Sheba from Xenoblade Chronicles 2 are genderless and lesbian, respectively. And in Xenoblade Chronicles 3, Juniper is non-binary and A is “somewhere in between.”
With Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door’s recent remake, Intelligent Systems reminded us of a character who has always been part of that queer umbrella, ever since the 2004 GameCube original. In the English and German localisations, that wasn't clearly the case. But in 2024, that changes – no matter what language you play in, Vivian, one of Mario’s strongest allies in the turn-based RPG, is transgender.
I honestly didn’t think Nintendo would do it. My biggest fear is that Nintendo would walk back the whole thing – walk back 20 years' worth of slow progress that was at least present in the Japanese version, and omit Vivian’s identity from the remake. But Intelligent Systems and the Big N went one further than that. In 2024, Vivian is unequivocally trans. In Japan, and a handful of European languages, Vivian has always been trans. The new English localisation, along with a brand new line in all languages, just stands to reinforce that. We still have a long way to go, but this is a huge step in the right direction for Nintendo.
Vivian’s whole storyline is something many people can relate to. She’s a victim of bullying, simply for being who she is. That’s not an issue exclusive to members of the LGBTQIA+ community. You can be bullied for anything – heck, while growing up, I was teased for liking things most would associate with boys. Even your physical appearance is something people belittle others over, which is actually what the original 2004 English localisation changed Vivian’s bullying storyline to.
Vivian’s identity is at the heart of her familial issues...She has found her identity, even if her family won’t accept it.
The Cutting Room Floor has translations of the original Japanese text and the English GameCube text, where older sister Bedlam berates Vivian for getting the name of the group wrong. In Japanese, Vivian calls them “The Three Shadow Sisters,” but Bedlam insists on calling the group the “Shadow Trio” and then deliberately misgendering her sibling. In the OG English, Vivian calls the group “The Three Shadow Beauties,” with Beldam instead claiming they’re the “Shadow Sirens” and calling Vivian “Plug-ugly.”
On Switch, this scene (in English) is now much closer to the original Japanese. Vivian tries to call them "Sisters," but Bedlam this time says “It’s just Shadows! The Three SHADOWS.” Vivian apologises, saying, “it makes me really happy when you call me your sister.” Bedlam calls her “sappy” and then promises punishment, but not before taking down Mario: “The might of The Three Shadows–RELATION WITHHELD–will be more than enough to win the day.”
It’s not explicitly stated here, but it’s pretty clear to anyone that Vivian wants her sisters to recognise her as a sister too. The transphobia is toned down too, particularly in Japanese, where Bedlam refers to Vivian’s “assigned at birth” gender in the GameCube version; now, Bedlam says, “we’re a trio, not three sisters!” Still, Bedlam wants to punish Vivian for trying to call herself a sister, so the game doesn’t go out of its way to paint her in a good light.
Going even further, Vivian’s Tattle log description has been updated. As OatmealDome points out, the Japanese version has removed all mention of Vivian’s gender. Now, when Goombella uses Tattle on Vivian during a boss fight in Chapter 2, instead of pointing out her gender as she does in the GameCube version ("He may look like a girl"), Goombella now refers to Vivian with the correct pronouns and can’t get over how cute Vivian is. And hey, she’s right. It goes a step beyond what I ever expected – not only is it respecting Vivian’s identity, it’s also affirming it.
Vivian eventually breaks away from her sisters, and Chapter 4 is where everything comes to a head. In Chapter 4, about halfway through the story, Mario loses his identity to a thieving ghost. With his friends all thinking the ghost is now Mario, the paper plumber is a literal shadow of himself. Returning to Twilight Town, he bumps into Vivian, who is searching for a bomb that Bedlam lost – Bedlam, of course, blames her.
After you find the bomb hiding neatly behind some grass, a flustered Vivian can’t believe the kindness she receives from the shadowy Mario. She asks for Mario’s name, which he tries to tell her but can’t because his name has been stolen. So Vivian agrees to help Mario take back what is his – his name, and his body. Moved by Mario’s kindness, Vivian agrees to help Mario, and confesses that she isn’t “sure I really want to stay with my sisters anymore…” because it took her time “to realize I was their sister… not their brother.”
This is a brand new line in the Switch remake, in English and Japanese. In the GameCube original, Vivian cuts straight from not wanting to be with her sisters to saying she should repay Mario’s kindness. In the Japanese Switch version, Vivian says, "The thing is... I… I have a boy's body, but my heart is a cute girl's!" (translation from OatmealDome) and she uses feminine-first pronouns. There’s not really any room for debate here anymore.
Vivian’s identity is at the heart of her familial issues – she is a woman, but her family can’t accept that, and she feels as though their bullying is targeting her gender. She has found her identity, even if her family won’t accept it. Now, she has a chance to help someone find their name and body – two things that most of us would ascribe to our identity. I’m not Alana if I have a different name, and at 30 years old, I feel comfortable in my body. It must feel the same to Mario at that moment.
It’s an incredible moment for Vivian, empowering her and giving her the space to help someone else who is trying to find, or rediscover, their identity. It’s more literal in Mario’s case – the colour, outlines, and even voice, have been physically taken from him, and he can’t even say his name out loud. Think of Spirited Away when Chihiro’s name is taken from her by the witch Ybaba, and she’s given a new name – Sen. She briefly forgets her own name, only for Haku to help her remember and insist that she cling onto a physical memory of that name: a goodbye card.
Your name is crucial to who you are as a person, and your identity is intrinsically linked to it. Mario might’ve been known as Jumpman once upon a time, but he’s Mario. And it’s the same for the youngest member of the Three Shadows – Vivian is Vivian, sister to Beldam and Marilyn.
The boss battle during Chapter 4 also has one of the best gimmicks in the whole game. Earlier, Mario couldn’t do damage to his identity thief because he didn’t know his real name. But after discovering the missing letter from the in-game keyboard and overhearing the parrot naming the ghost, Mario can actually deal Doopliss damage. All of his other allies have been fooled by the ghost, and fight by his side, but when Mario wins and reclaims his identity, the group is shocked.
Surprised that Mario has been working with the enemy, Vivian, they question why he decided to team up with her. Vivian looks hurt, but Mario steps in and sticks up for her, without question. There’s no need to justify anything outside “My friend helped me when I needed it,” is there? That’s what we assume Mario is saying here. And the group accepts Vivian immediately after that. And with that, she “REALLY” joins your party.
Vivian’s identity isn’t addressed much after that, but these three key moments establish her as a beautiful, well-thought-out character with an arc that is universally resonant. Going back to what Jeremy Signor said, her story of accepting her identity will “represent some aspect of the queer experience,” but it will also strike a chord with anyone who’s been bullied simply for being who they are. The queer experience comes from Vivian being a transgender woman. It’s a vital piece of storytelling that we needed in English 20 years ago, but at least we have it now.
Vivian’s gender is also never the butt of any of the party's jokes. She’s the strongest character in-game, and Mario and his friends all seem to respect her. Not once is her identity questioned by Mario and the party, and they let her join the adventure on merit alone. As such, Mario and his friends become Vivian’s new family, in a way. Found family is one of the oldest tropes in the book for RPGs – usually in the form of a bunch of misfits or mismatched characters coming together to save the world – but when you’re queer, there’s that extra layer of acceptance and affirmation. After all, don’t you want to hang out with people who love you for simply being who you are, rather than with those who want you to be something else?
That’s exactly what happens with Vivian – she gets a family who accepts her for who she is. And with the ‘restored’ localisation, and updates to the Japanese text, it gives a transgender character a huge moment to affirm her place in the world. Quite simply, Nintendo needs more characters like Vivian, and I hope this is the first of many more steps to come. Hopefully, more than just Intelligent Systems and Monolith Soft can fly the flag.
Comments 186
and here come the pretzels...
Why cant people just play games to enjoy their spare time and not have to find representation in them. It's just a game.
You’re just asking for trouble at this point. Anyway I don’t think Nintendo NEED more characters like Vivian. It would be nice to have more lgbt representation in Nintendo games but it isn’t required. Having a good character should come first and foremost, what they’re sexuality is should be secondary.
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Moving forward I hope that representation in media is organic, and that it's not a defining characteristic but rather a part of a well-written person. People are so much more.
I also like that it's referenced one or a couple of times and we just move on. No one challenges her, her evil sisters just simply refer to her as sister. it's just accepted. As it should be in life.
@Tibob I'm honestly surprised this article doesn't have the comments turned off. I feel there's going to be a lot of removed comments soon.
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@Beetlebum91 Exactly. Looking for deeper meaning just to find some false validation is stupid...
@Beetlebum91 Already 3 removed comments lol. I’m shocked too. Either let people speak or disable comments.
It's really nice to see that society has reached a point where this kind of representation can be included without censorship in a major Nintendo game. Hopefully it will help teach the kids who grow up playing this game to be understanding and accepting of trans people in real life.
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Why are people so upset that Vivian is trans? She's always been trans, the subtext is just clearer and not censored in the English release. She's trans. Deal with it. It doesn't impact the gameplay at all, nothing is changed, it's the same game as it was.
Welcome to the automated response generator for the Nintendo Life comment section. Due to the increase of repeat articles/comments: we have created a list of common responses, allowing you to copy/paste your comment. Please select from the options below:
1. I appreciate how Hague calls attention to the importance of representation in video games. Thank you for this article.
2. This article doesn’t resonate with my currently held beliefs, but I’ll respect that other people have different opinions without complaining about them.
3. Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door was better on the GameCube when it ran 60 fps.
For all other comments, feel free to leave your response below. Please just remember what may not be important to you may be important to someone else. Someone’s identity is not a matter of politics, and respecting this identity requires very little from us.
I’m done with NL. I have nothing against the lifestyle people choose, but I don’t visit a gaming news site to be preached at.
@Dogorilla nah we live in a society where a difference of opinion gets censored so you win I guess haha
When I played the game 20 years ago it rather went over my head.
I see no harm in further representation.
I don't feel the need to be represented myself,
but then as a heterosexual male I'm represented in most things already so can't really conceive the lack of it.
I don't think I've ever felt represented by a video game. That's not the right place to look for validation.
@Weeze86 and if they didn’t add that in, the other side would be crying about being ignored.
I appreciate how Hague calls attention to the importance of representation in video games. Thank you for this article.
Thanks to @Solomon_Rambling I finally saw the light !
Fantastic article. I've been a big fan of this game since it originally launched in 2004 and was sad to learn this was erased from the original English language version (of course, I didn't know at the time). The quality of the characters and writing are what stand out the most to me in regard to Thousand Year Door, so it's nice to see that improving even more to represent minority groups. Love Vivian and this more modern, adult take on the characters of Mario's world.
This is a minor thing but is Vivian actually the strongest party member in the game? Vivian is my favorite to use in battle, but I think Admiral Bobbery is actually the strongest.
Also - sorry - but I don’t know how you can include this line at the beginning of the article but then start deleting comments that voice dissenting opinions: “Soapbox features enable our individual writers and contributors to voice their opinions on hot topics and random stuff they've been chewing over.” If you want to actually have a discussion on this subject, you can’t just shut people off who don’t agree.
@NTDO89
Genuine question:
how are they preaching at you?
@NTDO89 yeah can you imagine the uproar if the opposite view was posted as an article
Just lock the comments section if you're not welcoming conflicting opinions, because they WILL emerge from such a stormy subject.
If you can't connect with a character unless they are "representing" you, that speaks volumes about your lack of empathy, not mine for not caring whether a character is or isn't an ism.
@lupincentral "adult take on Mario's world" no wonder miyamoto hates story. Just let him stomp on enemies and be done.
@Retron That's the point, empathy only seems to work in a one-way pattern. There are a lot of ego lords in the scene.
Lol, English localization still sucks, kinda. Why I'm not surprised...
In the original Japanese version, Vivian is otokonoko, a feminine guy
https://x.com/DimitriMonroeZ/status/1702609443500732645
@Beetlebum91 I dunno. Why cant people just play games to enjoy their spare time, and let people work towards adding and creating representation in them?
I think we should worry about making good games, not forced inclusion. Inclusion is fine, but shoe horning it in for no reason is ridiculous. This is not a good trend for video games in general.
@Shade_Koopa you don't need to find deeper meaning in a video game. Experience something real for that. Climb a mountain, find God or something and I'm not even religious.
@Beetlebum91 i see what you mean, but then it's like why even get on these Nintendo sites n such to begin with? NL soapboxes have writers reflect on games they play, sometimes it feels like on a molecular level. How many quirky ones from Kate n Co. have we seen on random subjects? Figure at some point they'd catch a topic of finding representation in a game. Idk I'm def not arguing, just random thoughts, don't think it's that far out there for a topic imo
I'm just going to continue assuming 1 in 10 of the goombas in the original Super Mario Brothers are LGBTQIA+.
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Here we go again...
I do appreciate how this version's English translation is more faithful to the GameCube Japanese original. Censorship is vile!
In fact, I would go as far as to say that I consider all Western versions of the Street Fighter franchise to be 'non-canon' because they swapped around the names of three of the four bosses from Street Fighter II. Also Nash is just a better name than Charlie.
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"Birdo — who's known as Catherine in Japan — is now exclusively referred to as a girl. Not the best start, but it is a start."
I'm a little confused by this, isn't this what trans people usually want, to be thereafter referred to by their new gender?
Please excuse any ignorance I display, I'm hardly expert on the subject.
No thanks. Just let them focus on creating the characters they want without this ridiculous pressure that they HAVE TO check boxes with the 'knife' of cancellation held against their throat if they don't.
Also, from my understanding of the Japanese text, "Vivian" is just a cross-dresser. Either way, it's kind of sad that the gender-discussion about a purple shadow seem to Trump the discourse about how great the game is, but I guess that's just gaming culture nowadays.
@CammyUnofficial No idea, just bored after work and thought I'd try to make some sense of nonsense
We love Vivian, our trans queen. And there’s nothing actually to agree or disagree with. There’s no opinion here, just talking about Vivian as a character. If you’re whining then it’s basically just bigotry, automatically getting annoyed because of the slightest mention of a trans character.
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@Tobiaku I'm not trusting the guy who rated gal gun 9/10...
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@Beetlebum91 Agreed! Just play and enjoy the game. Jeesh.
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@Dogorilla There's no sexual censorship in Nintendo games, lol. At least, in the original Japanese versions. Say thanks to Nintendo's American and European localizers for this bs. Even Famicom Detective Club remakes' worldwide releases were censored. It's why I'm not intending to buy it anymore – because regional censorship sucks, and censorship is bs.
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More characters like Vivian in Nintendo games, in Sony games, in Microsoft games, in indie games, in all games.
The people who say "just play games for escapism," need to understand oftentimes us LGBT+ folk use games for escapism too. Oftentimes, the escapism is the ONLY place to get representation.
So yeah, more characters like Vivian in every game. Anyone against it can deal.
The future is now 🏳️⚧️🏳️🌈
@Weeze86 I did provide link to evidence.
@Vyacheslav333 censorship sucks unless it's the opposite opinion that gets censored... then it's fine....
@Beetlebum91
The discussion over whether games are art or 'just games' I guess still rumbles on.
I'm not sure where I am on it, depends on the game I'm playing I guess.
As for rainbows, I like seeing them in Kirby games and such.
So Vivian is Drag Queen (Male with female outfits + attitude like RuPaul) or Transgender (Male who have gender surgery into female character)?
I have never knew if there was LGBTQ character in TTYD but I welcome them.
I also represent part of LBGTQ community.
Eh, representation isn't a priority, if you can write the character and their transgenderism into the story, sure but just creating characters BECAUSE of what gender they want to be affirmed as almost undermines what makes them a character in the first place? Like if that's your ONLY reason for the character to exist then I feel like that's more insulting.
Thank you for writing this even though you knew what kind of comments it would generate. Representation is important!
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I mean, as far as I know, the representation isn’t really in your face, and the character isn’t all about the representation either, it gets mentioned, then doesn’t really play a huge role in the grand scheme of things.
Soooooo… to the people who were overjoyed by the inclusion, good for you. To the people who dislike the inclusion, is it really big enough of a deal to complain? I feel like it’s only a small part of the character, so in that case, they did it well. A trans character shouldn’t just be about ‘being trans’. Having a character who just also happens to be trans (or whatever else minority) is usually the best way to go about it, focus on making them a whole individual.
I mean, they exist. So they get characters that represent them, at some point or another. It’s not always about making a statement. Do games need them? Probably not. Is it nice when they have them and they’re done well as characters? Yeah. We get good character, and people who don’t feel seen in the world get a character to relate to.
This comment section is beginning to look like Swiss cheese.
@Vyacheslav333 To me regional differences should be limited to things that make sense and that are non-invasive. A clear example of this is changing all the meatballs to hamburgers in the Western versions of Alex Kidd in Miracle World. Tweaking things to retro-con certain minor details in a series can be tolerable if done with care and attention and are kept to a minimal for legitimate reasons of creative narrative, so long as they don't stray into the realms of censorship.
@Tobiaku one catch card from the original version where it was less clear she was trans. Trans rights and representation have changed so much since that was published and nintendo confirms that Vivian is trans. Case closed.
@Uncle_Franklin Swiss cheese more like LGBrieTQ 🤣
@Takoda I don't think it's about disliking the inclusion, I think it's the fact they had to write a long article about how damn important it is. I'm playing the game and loved it on gamecube, still love it now I just don't need NL to remind me how damn important it is to the most VOCAL minority.
@Beetlebum91 Totally, that's Mario for sure. Although, I think exploring the franchise in the form of a narrative driven RPG is the perfect place to tackle "the psychology of a goomba", to quote Back Page Pod, if they are ever going to! An RPG without a story and good characters may as well not be an RPG in the first place.
As far as I know The sisters bullied Vivian because she was prettier than them and the youngest, calling her a boy out of jealousy ( which is a form of bullying in Japan). They called her that so much that she actually believed that she was a boy.
Seems like she's not trans at all, so no, this isn't a win for you guys.
Tl;dr Vivian is not trans, just a product of bullying.
@BLAZINOAH Changing meatballs to hamburgers? What? It sounds really stupid...
Vivian being trans doesn't align with my own personal head canon so I'm just going to go ahead and ignore it.
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@Arkay there's a joke to be made here but I'd rather not be banned lol
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So Vivian is more like RuPaul?
Okay, I understand.
@IceClimbersMain these comment sections can be deadly : P
@Vyacheslav333 Yes, I'll admit it's stupid for such a small thing. SEGA did it in a vain attempt to broaden their appeal to a wider American audience. Ultimately, it was an inoffensive change and an interesting historical curio.
@Weeze86 If you reread my original comment, I said Vivian is a guy in the original Japanese version. Just because trans rights and representation has changed does not mean the original version of this game is not still the original version. In the original version Vivian is male, and thats what I said. I never said anything translations or the Switch versions of the game.
@Anti-Matter No, RuPaul is a drag queen. Vivian is trans.
@Arkay woah. Just looked up this theory. The more you know. 🤯
I thought Beldam was berating Vivian not because, she wants to ‘be their sister’ but because ‘three sisters’ doesn't sound so intimidating.
Never picked Vivian because her attack is too complicated - you have to press buttons quickly. I'm always confused about the X and Y buttons.
@Tobiaku she's heavily implied to be trans in the gamecube original, and the switch version fully confirms that she is trans.
@LadyCharlie - Isn't that a little too hyperbolic, tho? I am aware you are attempting to be inciting emotions with that comment, but there are people who have this thought in ernest.
If a team genuinely wants to create a game that is a survival game with one actual character, then they would be essentially one option for the sake of representation; a Gay Trans Disabled Person of Color. If someone WANTS to make that specific person, by all means. But requiring the representation may just get some half-assed makeshift that everyone either forgets, or uses as a bludgeon as to why the industry is broken (in both "camps").
I think there is still more to people then some checkbox representation, a lot of which corporations leverage to invoke emotion to buy crappy products because they simply acknowledged you. I mean, I am legally blind in one eye, but the community believes that a pirate represents me when we are talking representations like this. That's not how it works, but people are eager to accept whatever is offered, cause many teams don't care to offer deeper meaning behind a rainbow painted character.
really well written article! honestly i feel like nintendo really needs to have more main characters be queer. seriously, so many people love undertale and celeste. why? cause queer people can see themselves in GAMES! so honestly i would love if nintendo made more important characters that are lqbtq. representation of queer characters is lacking a lot in gaming nowdays it’s embarrassing. also please keep your opinions to yourself and be considerate of others feelings no matter your stance! (also listen to some noahfince and tx2
(PS. learned about a lot game called gay blade the other day…i would love a remake of that!)
also shocks me how much of this kind website isnt accepting
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@FishyS I am just going to continue assuming that GOOMBAS DON’T HAVE ANY FORM OF SEXUALITY WHATSOEVER.
Stop. Sexualizing. Nintendo. Characters. 👏
I'm admittedly surprised the comment section here is still open lol.
Anyway, I don't really care too much about the topic admittedly. I have gay friends and all that, and I accept everyone for who they want to be. But I don't really need to see it, or transgender stuff or what have you, in video games that much. Or movies. Or any kind of media. If it's present, cool. If not, also cool. Imho it's nothing different from straight, man, woman, whatever.
That's just on a personal level though. I understand that, to make this whole thing more accepted, it might need to be more touched upon in various pieces of media. And for that reason I do hope that it becomes present more often. Though again personally I don't really care that much.
@Lemonyoshi yeah it's rather simple huh? Personally I prefer it that way. 😏
@UNCLDNS
How is including people re-educating?
Would the inclusion of cis gender people (is that the term?) also be considered an educating exercise?
@NTDO89 If only there was some way you could just... not read the article instead of this faux outrage over something that doesn't impact you.
@UNCLDNS If the existence of a queer character in a game prevents you from “playing in peace,” then the problem is definitely with you - not the game.
@Beetlebum91
I mean, nobody forced you to read the article, and representation is a topic one can choose talk about in an article like soapbox.
The only issue is that only one stance is supported, and though it is a stance I agree with, I think all this does is just create a rift between both sides. If you can’t have communication anymore, then of course nothing is actually going to change.
@Arkay So much less confusing 🫣🫥😶🌫️
Can I say that here? NintendoLife gods? We good? Yea, we’ll go with that. Less confusing. 😅
(Plz don’t delete/ban me)
@Lemonyoshi
In Paper Mario many of the goombas do have a sexuality; there's husbands and wives, fathers and mothers.
A number of female characters repeatedly hit on Mario.
I don't see it as a problem.
The cheese pun was good though.
@OctolingKing13 that's a very ignorant general assumption. I'm neither White nor old.
I do believe in Christ however.
@Arkay ok i realize that was a stereotype, i edited it 🙂↕️
Wow a lot of censorship on these replies…
I respect companies that resist the drive for DEI compliance and its artificial and forced inclusivity and diversity. It’s becoming a really bad influence on games and fundamentally moves them away from their primary purpose - which is to have fun.
Sony has fallen for this. I **really** hope Nintendo doesn’t.
This is a genuine question and I’m not trying to incite anything- but if trans women are real women then they’re represented in Nintendo media plenty as there are various female characters in Nintendo games right?
@OctolingKing13 and I applaud you for having an open mind and realizing your wrongs.
I truly wish you a great day!
Frankly, I'm tired of people pushing agendas or inclusivity in their games, it shouldn't be a priority. The priority should be to make games fun.
With that being said I paid the full $60 for the ttyd remake because it's a fun game, but characters like this should not be created to satisfy a certain minority audience.
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@Uncle_Franklin people just want something to be mad about I guess
Crossdressing is not the same as being transsexual. But then anyone can read into what they like.
Just search for 'Otokonoko', to understand the inspiration for these characters.
@Lemonyoshi Never beg. Stand up for yourself and your moral and philosophical convictions. I do! You'll never please everyone. Besides, it seems that Paper Mario has a surprisingly toxic fanbase considering all the hateful comments YouTuber Lady Decade has received for complaining about a number of issues surrounding this remake such as competing political agendas and the rip-off price in the US.
It’s a soapbox y’all
Actually wild how many people are like “yo it’s just a game” but then go and reply to like 8 comments because they have opposing opinions
Alana likes the character because it’s a cool example of gaming embracing representation that’s all it’s not like a harsh take or opinion or anything it’s like if I said I like Mario because he wears red 💀 there is no opinion to be had here on whether or not that’s right
I will call out homie with the yoshi pfp specifically—you certainly seem to care a lot about the “sexualization” of Mario characters good sir
Also saying Nintendo hasn’t done anything like this since 2004 is outright wrong lmao—go look up games like captain rainbow and the Xenoblade references mentioned in the above article—that you could’ve skipped out on reading if it offended you so much
Calling attention to Mario liking peach isn’t sexualizing characters in an E rated game so a ghost saying they like being called sister rather than brother is even less so
Also quit saying it’s just a game and then replying to everyone you disagree with you can go ahead and admit you care a whole lot 😁
As do I obviously implied from this lengthy response
Anyways great article guys sorry the worst are always the most vocal, your work is appreciated.
I appreciate this article. It went over my head, whilst playing, even with the updated translation. Granted, I'm not someone that needs to label things, so I didn't see Vivian or any other character as anything other than a character. Calling it out shows inclusivity which is cool, and I'm glad we're in a place in life where these kinds of opinions can be put to print and companies can depict characters that reflect their audience.
As an aside, this article is listed as a soapbox type article, thus an opinion piece, so why not let it exist without negative comments? Those commenting know it is a soapbox article, don't like the subject matter from the start, yet still choose to engage. Why not move on? This wasn't a critical essay, it was a piece designed to highlight a new light for areas once cast in the shadows. In all things, just be respectful and kind. It's really not that hard. If you want to state your opinion here, or anywhere, please do so with kindness. With thought of the reader, the listener. Have a conversation, not a confrontation.
@jamess Forced eh? So then what's the excuse for bigotry, racism, and hatred when the intended vision of the artist is someone other than a white straight guy?
It always seems like the idea is "Let the artists create what they want...unless it's something I disagree with of course, then change it to suit me"
Something I always seem to run into with a certain anti crowd.
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@Retro_Zelda Asking for the writers to come on and clarify something obviously wrong that you’ve commented like 80 times and been ignored for a reason is wild bro 😭🙏 climb on out of the butt imprint in your chair and go touch some grass
Vivian serves as an excellent example of how to introduce a transgender character into an established franchise. Firstly, the game doesn't make a big fuss about her being transgender, allowing her character to integrate naturally into the story. Secondly, the creators don't use her to boast about their progressiveness online. In contrast, Toys for Bob made a significant show of their new progressive characters, like Tawna and the non-binary CatBat, who seem to exist primarily for political reasons. Unlike these characters, Vivian feels like an organic part of the universe.
@Retro_Zelda I can explain it to you. In the original Japanese script of GameCube version Vivian is otokonoko(feminie guy). That's all, lol.
@Bratwurst35 I think you’ve missed the point. Game content should follow the artist’s / developer’s vision. That approach inherently doesn’t exclude anyone. If you have an artistic vision for characters that are not white males - fine - put it in a game. No need for enforced DEI compliance.
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@Retro_Zelda Nope it definitely isn’t and when I scroll up I can see you’ve asked it 5 or 6 other times so I know you’re really really invested in this video game character’s sexuality I’m glad you take your paper Mario side character lore so seriously!
I’ll explain—The ghosts refer to themselves as the shadow sisters, but when Vivian says this they get mad at her and say she can’t do so—she says they call her their brother. This would be a very weird and out of place insult as even in Japan Otokonoko have existed for a while as said by a few others here. The community interpreted this as Vivian having been the brother of the other two originally and wanting to be accepted as their sister.
And you know what, even if this isn’t exactly what the developers originally intended they are obviously leaning into it for the remaster. So you can let the community interpret it in a way that makes them feel happy and represented! You have no investment or attachment to whether or not this character is trans—unlike others, so your dedication to this question is something I find a tad bit humorous—I apologize for mocking you though 🙏
I hope this gives you a new dinner table discussion tonight!
@rainbowtick This would be a beautiful comment when people who wrote positive comments can’t also come over very confrontational instead of conversational. But in that case, often, we don’t have to keep kindness and the feelings of the other in mind, because their stance is just wrong in the eyes of many.
And that’s why a lot of things stay the same. Even those written in a kind way get pushed to the side because ‘well, since they don’t agree immediately, that must mean they’re trying to start a flame war’. Some of them actually are trying to start a flame war, haha, but if we assume everyone is, then nobody gets anywhere. It might be surprising but a lot of people are either confused or in the dark, not necessarily hell bent on starting arguments.
Why I, a gay man, appreciate representation:
I've played video games my whole life. I was never upset that there weren't characters like me, but it was frustrating when the characters in media that were supposed to be like me were laughing stocks or a character the audience wasn't supposed to admire. As a white male, I had tons of representation in that regard, but not for my being gay, which I had been picked on and told incorrectly through media was wrong.
In 2012, I hear that Mass Effect 3 is coming to the Wii U. I look up some videos on YouTube to see if it's something I'd like and found out that your character could be gay if you wanted them to be. I still remember that day, I got unexpectedly emotional that wow, I could play as a character that more closely resembles me. I ended up finding an XBox 360 on Craigslist so I could pay all three games. I ended up obsessing over that game, and found that I would have enjoyed the trilogy regardless of whether or not I could have my character represent me, but it was an incredible bonus that made the events of the series hit closer to home.
I don't expect to be represented in every single game. But I love that there are examples of people like me and others in my community, something younger me never would have thought would be embraced. If you're not gay or otherwise LGBT, you can just ignore that detail in those characters or not focus on them. Just let us enjoy and move along if it isn't your thing.
Instead of putting so much effort into battling those of us that get enjoyment out of this when you could be off playing some great games or, I don't know, living life minding your business.
@Beetlebum91 Because when you are or support a minority that even now is continually being discriminated against and treated like trash across the world, seeing characters like that and their struggles depicted in media like it's no big deal is a major reassurance, not to mention it just adds flavor to work seeing a greater variety of people's experiences be allowed to be part of it. And frankly the fact that your comment has any upvotes whatsoever, much less so many, is absolutely ghoulish.
@Arkay genuinely back in the day this was exactly my read on this as well.
To be honest, of everything I’ve read about this over the years I’m not sure if I completely buy that there was an English “retranslation” originally. I thought she was bullied for being the prettiest of the three siblings and was therefore made to feel like an “ugly boy” as a way of keeping her beneath the other two …it’s essentially a Cinderella and the two ugly sisters kind of storybook approach.
If they are re-contextualising this for the re-release then sure. Clearly they felt it was important to do so since as a society we have changed and progressed over the last 20 years.
But, Liking it or disliking it is both ok. Doesn’t make you good or bad on your preference for the character, developer intention or not.
Games are made as entertainment and art. If someone wants to put that stuff in their game then they’re welcome to, but they shouldn’t complain if it impacts the reception or sales of the game. People don’t like being preached to when they play games. Especially with Nintendo, their brand is built around family friendliness and they can’t uphold that if they’re teaching kids what parents may not want them hearing
@FroZtedFlake I mean, in the same way Retro_Zelda’s interpretation can be seen as a valid way to interpret what Vivian goes through. One interpretation doesn’t rule out the other. He’s asked it 5-6 times because nobody gave an answer, and because trans isn’t an experience everyone readily relate to or understand. Their investment could be seen as a way to desire understanding of something that they didn’t understand before: ‘Why does this make somebody trans?’ So their dedication to it could come from there.
Calling it into question is not always a quest to disprove another interpretation. One could just argue that Vivian being trans is much more meaningful to her character and to the minority it would represent, than if she was just a girl the whole time, got gaslit into thinking she’s a boy and then realises, wait, no, I was always a girl! It’s a valid interpretation but doesn’t really warrant an article in that case, haha, unless maybe on the power of gaslighting. .
@InnerSound Well... I've seen the word «otokonoko» being used in H media only, lol.
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More games do.
It’s representation done right, it doesn’t feel shoehorned to fit and agenda or stereotyping at all
@Chubnub It’s not a case of agree with us or get deleted it’s a fact of believing Trans people aren’t valid isn’t an opinion but a form of bigotry.
@Retro_Zelda Also, since you asked: Vivian can be read as trans because the experience she goes through is similar to what a trans person often goes through. Being treated as a boy, she could have been born a boy and wanted to be referred to as a girl instead, but her mean sisters didn’t acknowledge this. Thus, her story is about how words can be hurtful, sure, but it can also be about identity, specifically trans identity, and how other people can deny or accept that. It’s not explicitly stated but it can be read that way, and it gives it a whole lot more meaning for trans people to relate to that way too.
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@Retro_Zelda @Takoda I completely agree, if it’s for the purpose of self-fulfillment then any interpretation that makes you feel seen or happy with the character is awesome and I think if it makes the reader of said statements happy then there’s no problem and they should keep it up.
Apologies if I really misread your questions—I think it’s fairly clear how people often left out or bullied (like you are saying is bad) looking for representation in a character might see her as trans
But your case has a point to it as well, and if it’s what you see as the more logical assumption from the provided dialogue then I think that’s awesome and you should embrace that as your Nintendo truth ✊
Reminder that when Disney started to put this stuff into their movies the quality went down. They cared more about an agenda then making movies enjoyable to watch. I hope Nintendo doesn’t go down the same path
@HeeHo I disagree.
This remake is a disappointment for me, for a number of reasons. I'm glad I still have the GameCube original from back in the day and that I can play it on my black GameCube and Red Wii. Nintendo could have done a better job with this remake.
No, Nintendo doesn't need more characters like Vivian, Nintendo and other developers need to make the character they want to make and without any kind of censorship regardless of their characteristics, period.
And we should all relate to others regardless of how similar or different they might be from us.
@NTDO89 while I agree with the preaching sentiment, and I do get tired of this same copy+paste representation shtick in media journalism, saying you’re done with NL is a bit of throwing out the baby, I’d say. Articles with political overtones are like .001% of the content here.
I don't have enough popcorn for all these comments.
People are really shoehoring meaning into this dialogue that simply isn't there. Did people not have mean siblings or even schoolyard bullies during childhood..? I was called a girl because I had curly slightly long hair as a young boy, and a girl was bullied and called a boy because she had glasses (?) as just some examples. There's nothing here about trans people.
Westerns and their obsession with focusing so much time and attention on their own sexuality as their core personality is disturbing, but it explains why they see these issues everywhere where they simply aren't.
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@Boston_J that is beyond beautiful! I'm beyond happy you got to experience that! I actually got teary eyed reading that. Love Mass Effect as well because it really let Shepherd be whatever you wanted them to be and it's beautiful!
I'm glad for the new truer translation with Vivian. It was always a disappointment that the GameCube version was censored.
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@AtlanteanMan Holy yappaccino 💀 how did I barely skim your post and read both Hitler and 9/11 how in the hell is that connected to a paper mario character 😭
Also this is a British based site-
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@Beetlebum91 sexualizing everything. And chasing people away.
Youre not allowed to talk about it.
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Or just focus on good game don't start pushing this because you can see it hasn't worked out for Sony or other gaming companies games end up flopping because they try push a message down our throats.
Trans people are cool, that's my take
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Hey, great article. I'm sorry to see people being so unpleasant in the comments, but know that your work is appreciated and that it at least meant something to me.
@N8tiveT3ch Lol. Yeah. )
@FroZtedFlake See, uhm, when I said all that stuff about interpretation and respecting others, that was the opposite of pretty much all that.
Some people want understanding, some people really are best avoided on these topics-
I’ll be the first to advocate for more communication but sometimes the moderation is very much needed.
Not surprised by the circus show here in the comments.
My Japanese copy of TTYD arrived just the other day. I should get to it and thanks to this comment section, I should clearly pay special attention to all the dialogue surrounding Vivian to see what the original Japanese intention was for the character. Because, as a reminder, NoA did not make this game and Japan is still pretty unwelcoming to LGBT+ expression. I just want to see what author’s original intent was.
EDIT: I see the article did provide some context, but left some stuff out in the tweets cited. Regardless, it’s an interesting development.
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Nintendo walks a tight rope with social issues. It’s good to celebrate characters like Vivian, but if you make too much of a buzz, it will become a controversy and be bad for their business. Nintendo’s whole image relies on its broad appeal.
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Personally, I would like to see more homosexual characters. In gaming in general.
@Notsoavid its very true that they rely on their family friendly image. its why I always say that political and social issues of the day should be kept out of business as its a real divider and causes un-needed friction in an already divided world
@Takoda Sad for humanity in the long run but also won’t lie, it’s pretty funny to see people pulling long winded 9/11 analogies out of their arse to fight for whether or not a paper Mario side character is trans
But yeah it is best to try and communicate with those willing to understand to an extent and I’m glad to see that for as many blatant haters swarming to the comments as they are there are still a lot of people willing to see reason or who think it’s all a tad silly
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Safe to say that Paper Mario is now very much a live culture war battleground and that SOME Paper Mario fans are almost as toxic as those who love All Elite Wrestling and Michael Jackson.
Personally, I like Paper Mario (especially the first two games) but I prefer both the Mario & Luigi series and especially Super Mario RPG.
@BLAZINOAH Ive never been a mario fan. always thought of it as a really basic and old fashioned game untill I played paper mario TOK. got hooked on that for weeks
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@nessisonett this.
And yes representation matters. To all those who are questioning
@Slowie I keep meaning to get around to playing that.
My interest in the series started to wane during the 3DS/Wii U era.
@Slowie
There was a time when showing races mixing wasn't considered family friendly.
Not sure that keeping all social issues of the day out of business is a good guiding principle.
Let the gaslighting begin...
@Jireland92
So regarding that, I think that having the representation is important, because the LGTBQ+ struggle of wanting acceptance is a very important and relevant subject. A person's identity can be a tragic source of conflict, sometimes interpersonally, othertimes from others unable or unwilling to accept that.
There are stories to be told and lessons to be learnt, and it's a shame that Nintendo couldn't tell this story in English decades ago.
As you say the character's sexuality shouldn't be their defining aspect; with Vivian the focus is her struggle with being bullied (which was a constant across all versions of the game).
However, not being quiet about the reason for such bullying is very important, and why LGTBQ pride matters so much.
The other part of this, is that trangenderism is very much so about identity, sexuality is a component but their identity is a daily constant in a person's life.
In all, I would say it's still necessary to tell this type of story of acceptance, and to do so, you will need such characters.
I think commenting on this article needs to be cut off. It's getting really toxic.
@Arkay @Retro_Zelda and others who I might have missed:
as OatmealDome mentions (not sure why Nintendo Life put only the Japanese text in the article though), in the original Vivian's party menu says オンナのコのようで ホントは オトコのコ "Looks like a girl, in reality [is] a boy." Combined with Vivian using the feminine first person pronoun アタイ atai you can tell that Vivian is a boy who looks and refers to themselves as a girl.
In the remake the party menu has been changed to 体は オトコのコで ココロは オンナのコ "[Vivian's] body is [that of a] boy, [Vivian's] heart is [that of a] girl."
Being allowed to spew hate isn't the same as equality. People would do well to learn the difference.
You've got a million other games that appeal to you, but you'd rather focus on something that you either disagree with or feel threatened by, and then choose to further exacerbate your own insecurity by insulting anyone who disagrees. Ridiculous.
You've got every ability to voice your opinion without calling for the harm of others. You can not purchase the game, you can stop coming to this site, you can retreat to your echo chambers. But instead you willingly come here to start fights and complain, making your tantrums public in the hopes of getting support from like minded people, all for the purposes of trying to connect with other like minded haters.
Instead of doing anything constructive or taking any initiative to better your own lives and those around you, you choose to just be angry. You've got your own choices and power and it's being squandered on nothing but hate.
If you can't handle representation, and you make no better decision than to voice your bigotry, then you've already lost. And not even in a small way - you're eternally defeated. Let the rest of us move along without you because we don't need it.
@Axecon i agree dont know why they didnt do it in the first place its just causing more friction with everyone.
Thank goodness the sensible people have begun to arrive
I usually don’t really read through these for long but for a university subject of mine I wanted to see how it actually turns out in the long run.
Final conclusion is that it’s best to stay away from both extremes and always stay critical. Thankfully seems there’s plenty of people on both sides who are open enough to converse with. Stressful topic though, so enough reflection for now. Looking forward to playing more TTYD.
“we were absolutely not trying to provide social commentary"
And that's the objectively correct stance to take. The last thing nintendo needs to do is ruin their family friendly public image by trying to virtue signal by pandering to less than 5% of the world population. Disney has gone that route and look how it's working out for them.
Mind you, people are free to live and believe in whatever they like, but this idiotic and obsessive need for "representation" in every piece of media does nothing to make people more accepting, in fact, it does precisely the opposite.
Gay characters have existed since the 90s and they were always accepted, as recently, I'd say Sylvando in DQ11 is one of the best. But that's because he exists as any other character and gets no special treatment. Trying to put these characters on a pedestal will only make people more annoyed as they exist almost exclusively to send a message.
@Ein Yours is my probably favorite comment on here ❤️
@Uncle_Franklin thats true but that wasnt made socially acceptable because business's promoted it. its because as a society we all agreed that its not that big of a deal. certain demographics are going to be strongly against the whole LGBT+ thing and its moved so fast that I think as a society we havent got to the point where its yet accepted fully. (older generations for instance the term you cant teach an old dog new tricks comes to mind). as a business it can be a very risky move to promote something thats not accepted by everyone as you can turn some customers against you as a brand doing so.
either or.... its still a great game and im happy people are able to relate to characters
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@Retro_Zelda this is always what I’ve assumed at least.
@jamess https://www.nintendo.co.jp/csr/report/employees/topics/index.html?active-topics=topics01
I think Nintendo is extremely utility oriented when it comes to how content is portrayed in their games in a way that makes them seem a bit detached. Like, what function does this serve in a player experience.
For example, people were clamouring for ages for Peach to have more agency and not be a damsel in distress all the time. Now that co-op is more prominent in Mario games, Peach gets promoted to playable character status.
Darker skin tones finally made their way into Animal Crossing: New Horizons because the avatar creator was (marginally) more involved than before.
It’s a bit twisted, but think it speaks to Nintendo viewing their games as toys rather than art capable of resonating with their customers. I genuinely believe they saw same sex relationships in Tomadachi Life as an unintended bug and that patching them out would be a bad idea never occurred to them. They are myopically focused on the game design to the detriment of how their games sit in local and global communities.
All this is to say that trans rights are human rights.
Fun fact:
so far, 36 comments out of 157 comments have been deleted
(please don't delete this, i don't mean to be offensive or anything)
@Slowie
It didn't happen in a vacuum, it involved years, decades, of activism. People didn't simply wake up one day and decide that it wasn't "a big deal"
And some of that did involve hiring practices from businesses, one influencing the other until progress was made.
I remember back in the day when the GameCube release just came I always maintained in forums that Vivian was trans and I was roasted and told shut the f*** up because for most of them she was just a regular woman.
XD I always had the hunch some them were attracted to the character and therefore made themselves feel better by believing so.
I don’t understand why people are so butthurt over this. Calling a girl a boy is a common insult in Japan and transgender people also exist, so I feel like both arguments are valid and you can interpret it however you want to. I personally believe it to be the first one, but extremists on both sides getting angry over it is honestly kinda telling… man I don’t get why people can’t just be nice.
@Uncle_Franklin point taken. but my point still remains true, the last 20 years have really seen a big change in society which has left alot of people (rightly or wrongly) feeling insecure about their own views being targeted and the last thing a business should do is join in as it could lose them money. either way one line in a game and everyone loses their mind..... be kind to each other and this whole argument goes away
@Tibob
I knew the automated response generator would work some day!
The few comments of yours I saw before they were taken down pertained more to Nintendo Life taking down your comments than your opinion on the article. I do believe in understanding a person’s opinion, so what’s yours, sans sarcasm?
@larryisaman
I’ll take a stab at your question because I don’t think anyone has answered it yet. Trans people want to be recognized by their gender identity. If they identify as female/male, they want to be recognized as women/men (for their name/pronouns to be respected; for others to not question their identity). As trans individuals, however, their lived experience is not the same as someone who has identified as cisgender all their life. A trans woman and a cisgender woman can relate on many experiences they share as women, but both the trans person and the cisgender person have experiences unique to their gender identities. As such, cisgender female characters may partially represent a trans woman but do not fully represent her history and lived experience, especially in a society that is intolerant toward trans people.
I hope that answers your question. Despite what I know about the community, I don’t identify as trans, myself, so someone else may have a better explanation.
Hello all. We're reaching the end of the day here in Europe, so we'll be closing the comments for the evening. Thank you to everyone who has discussed the game and this topic in good faith, with intelligence and patience.
To everyone else, I'd invite you to review our Community Rules and please remember that Nintendo Life is a welcoming, friendly community for ANYONE who loves video games and wants to share that passion.
You're always free to express your opinions and criticisms in the comments, but if the inclusive sentiments in articles like this anger you for some reason, it's worth reflecting on what you're looking for from an online community and, ultimately, if this one is right for you. Thanks. - Ed.
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