Update: We already know that the dock which comes with the Switch OLED is theoretically capable of outputting 4K / 60fps, but now KawlunDram has done some more digging and has discovered that the chip inside the dock is positioned as a “4K UHD multimedia SoC” by its manufacturer Realtek (thanks, VGC).
Apparently, the same chip was referenced in a Switch firmware update earlier this year, alongside the codename ‘Aula’. KawlunDram also points out that the Tegra X1 SoC inside the Switch does actually support 4K 60fps output over HDMI 2.0 already, but there's currently nothing to suggest that Nintendo intends to add this option to the existing Switch hardware.
Original Story [Tue 5th Oct, 2021 09:30 BST]: The dock which ships with the Switch OLED is capable of outputting 4K 60fps, it has been suggested.
The claim comes from YouTuber Nintendo Prime, who managed to get hold of a console ahead of its official release on Friday. When comparing the revised dock with the original one, it was found that not only does the dock itself have the HDMI 2.0 controller required for 4K output, but the cable it ships with is also 4K-ready.
By way of comparison, the HDMI controller inside the original dock adheres to the older HDMI 1.4 standard, as is the cable it ships with and is not capable of 4K 60fps.
Nintendo Prime also points out that while there's an ARM-based chip on the dock's motherboard, it does not have the power required to upscale a 1080p image to 4K, so any upscaling would need to be handled by a more powerful Switch console.
These findings could suggest that Nintendo has essentially future-proofed the dock ahead of another hardware iteration which could potentially introduce 4K 60fps. Late last month, 11 developers spoke anonymously to Bloomberg stating that they had 4K dev kits and were creating games to hit that resolution – a claim that was quickly and publicly denied by Nintendo.
Then, a day later, a patent was made public which suggests that Nintendo is working on its own upscaling technology similar to Nvidia's DLSS (Deep Learning Super Sampling).
All of this naturally fits in with rumours that Nintendo is working on a 'Switch Pro' system, a machine that insiders claim is expected to launch next year. Could it be that the Switch OLED was supposed to be the Switch Pro, and that the ongoing global chip shortage caused Nintendo to rethink its plans? Or perhaps the company always planned to release the OLED model as a way of refreshing the 'base' model of the console ahead of the more powerful Pro variant hitting the market?
Perhaps – and this is the least exciting theory of them all – it's just harder to get HDMI 1.4 cables and controllers these days, so Nintendo has opted to use the more commonly-availably HDMI 2.0 versions? Let us know your thoughts below.
Comments 213
"it's just harder to get HDMI 1.4 cables and controllers these days, so Nintendo has opted to use the more commonly-availably HDMI 2.0 versions?"
probably
"Perhaps – and this is the least exciting theory of them all – it's just harder to get HDMI 1.4 cables and controllers these days, so Nintendo has opted to use the more commonly-availably HDMI 2.0 versions? Let us know your thoughts below."
Probably the more realistic theory, no?
Either way, even if it turns out that they are working on a "Switch Pro", until Nintendo actually show the damn thing, I could not care less.
The Dock being 4K ready is interesting, but it is also just possible that it was manufactured with the available parts, which just happen to be better and more capable.
The last one. It's the last one.
The Switch Pro rumour has just hit 4K 60fps overdrive!
Switch Pro a Gogo Baby!
😜
Must be correct, the dock ships with a 4K Hdmi cable.
Well, I guess that answers that question. Also if it's just because of parts why revise the dock at all? They are still producing the original Switch afterall. Probably the most definitive proof that there at least were plans for a Switch Pro.
Also interesting thought. Technically this means the current Switch could output a 4K signal with HDR. Not much point given it's well short of rendering at that resolution but still. Opens the door for streaming?
@skywake
I will say it would be nice if the Switch can output a 4K signal via this dock, by integer-scaling a 1080p signal.
That'll mean games with pixel aesthetics will look much sharper on a 4K screen, since the screen won't be doing any upscaling.
No amount of these findings could make expecting "another hardware iteration" mere years away from Nintendo's Gen 10 any less looney, but regardless of whether this stuff was "future proofing" or just making use of more available components, it can potentially spell nice things for cross-gen compatibility instead. Switch successor capable of using the OLED dock not entirely unlike 3DS was capable of using DSi chargers? That would be neat in itself but also fuel the already not quite farfetched assumptions of said successor inheriting Switch's prized nature (and in this context, potentially even a similar size and shape) indeed.
Of course, that's nothing but idle speculation for the time being, too.
I still hope they would call their next system Super Switch, instead of Switch Pro. Actually, I'm pretty sure they ain't gonna call it pro because there's a Ps4 pro. Nintendo doesn't copy the others.
Well, that's interesting, but could mean nothing.
1 - The system still doesn't support 4K, maybe Nintendo could update it, in that case all Switches MIGHT be able to run idk, Snipper Clips at 4K, but that doesn't do much. I'm also not sure if this would even be possible, it depends on the chips in the current Switches. I personally don't believe this possibility.
2 - If Nintendo is future-proofing this dock, this would suggest that the upscaling hardware would be inside the Switch, opposed to being in the dock as most people speculated. In this case, maybe the Switch could utilize upscaling in handheld mode to run bigger games at f.e. 360p and upscaling to 720p? If yes, the system would need a hella of a battery, and a really excellent cooling system, I imagine. Otherwise, there's no reason to put the upscaling hardware on the tablet itself I think.
What I think about all this: I personally do believe the "SwitchPro" was intended for this year and got delayed because of the semiconductor crisis. Maybe they just kept the doc the way it was intended for the Pro, because they already purchased the chips and cables? Or maybe they want to sell the Pro without a dock, you just use your old one or buy it separately? Like they sould that one 3DS model without a charger? But I don't think this is a good idea.
Overal to make it clear, I just don't think these current Switch models will ever run at 4K, so the 4K support on the OLED dock really doesn't mean much right now, that's just my personal opinion.
Maybe Nintendo just wanted to have the best possible tech in there, the newer HDMI tech offers other advantages outside from 4K.
@skywake that's the question, can the current Switch OLED output 4K with a firmware update? And even if it did, the only games t could run at 4K would be stuff like idk, Undertale, Jump.Rope Challenge? And even then, the games would need a patch.
Again with the pro rumors.
THERE IS NO, AND WILL NEVER BE, A SWITCH PRO.
@sanderev there's enough evidence that it exists. If you don't believe it, that's your thing. People will continue to report on possible leaks and people will speculate.
@HenHiro The Switch has a Tegra X1 processor. So 100% yes, the Switch could output 4K. However for games it would be quite impossble as it lacks the power. Even an updated Switch would lack the power, unless we have a more than double upgrade of RAM, GPU ánd CPU. Which would make it more a new generation than a simple upgrade.
Also a Switch 4K might exist, but it will never be called a Switch Pro. It will be the next gen console that will have 4K support. That new system will be backwards compatible with the Switch, but the new software will be exclusive for it.
Also Switch Pro rumors have been here since before it launched in 2017. ALL of them have been incorrect.
@Zag_Man
Y'all need to let go of the idea of the dock having some external processor to facilitate 4K output.
Either the unit itself does 4K - be it native 4K or DLSS-upscaled 4K - or it does no 4K at all.
I would bet this change was done just due to the fact that it's hard to get around outdated 1.4 HDMI controllers.
When a new console does eventually get released, it will probably be called New Nintendo Switch OLED (4k), since it seems Nintendo's thing is to put the tech details directly in the name of the product.
On a side note, it's funny how everybody hated PS5 white color choice (which I prefered for their market), but now white Switch OLED sold out in an instant (out of my friends circle I'm the only one who got red+blue version on purpose - because it's Nintendo and it's supposed to be colorful and playful)
My theory, much like others have suggested, is that the "Switch Pro" is likely to be a new dock they release. The dock containing the necessary upscaling chip(s).
I believe they've confirmed the new oled dock is compatible with the older switch models as well, which sounds like it may be capable too. This way, the huge install base (original switch model owners) could simply buy a new dock to see 4K-level enhancements. Official docks have always been hard to come by, and many would happily keep a second dock for elsewhere in their home. Potentially, this new dock would be cheaper to purchase for the consumer too (then a new switch entirely); no screen, joycons etc etc. It would also prevent the oled model from becoming outdated within a small timeframe. Just a thought.
@Nin10dood Now all I want is a Viewtiful Joe revival.
I KNEW IT! Nobody give me credit when I said there is a new sku for the HDMI cabe and it could be 4k related 🤣
Even if the dock is 4k capable this probably most likely going to be a feature for the next Switch, if developers are just now getting 4K dev kits like the rumors suggest then it would be at least a few years before we see anything from them, which would put it in the timeline of the next Switch, the chip shortage could push things back further because right now there just aren't enough chips to even make the systems.
@CactusMan Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. Nintendo uses of the shelve parts or reuses parts of older hardware. Meaning those 4K capable chips and cables will be reused in a next generation Nintendo console.
HDMI 2.0 is a port standard, not a cable standard, so there's not technically such a thing as a HDMI 2.0 cable. Any High Speed HDMI cable capable of 18Gb/s can handle 4k60, and many cables that were around before 4k was widely adopted can handle this bandwidth. HDMI 2.1 would require a new ultra high speed cable though.
I wish Nintendo would just be clear about all of this, otherwise millions of people will go out and buy the OLED and then next year nintnedo could bring out a 4K model which those people would of wanted instead and would of waited for it instead of buying the OLED version.
But no,Nintendo care about money too much to actually consider their fans
@sanderev I shall make a note of this comment 😂
@sanderev well I do think the newer rumours coming from Nate and Bloomberg are pretty compelling, my personal opinion. I don't see why they would lie about this.
I think it doesn't make sense for it to be a next-gen Switch, because the Switch is so sucessful right now, thinking in these old patterns just because it has always been this way, doesn't really make sense for me.
According to the rumours, the "Pro" was intended for this year, and definitely has to be released soon (like early 2023 at the absolute latest) because even 3rd parties have spent money deving for it, if you wait longer there is no point in releasing it at all since it will be outdated. I personally think this all makes sense.
Nintendo could make the Switch like iPhone as speculated and just get rid of the generation thing, this would have many advantages for Nintendo.
@skywake I'd love to agree with you that it's a smoking gun, BUT unless you expect the OG Switch to still be on the market in 2 years time I'd suggest that the simple available component theory is still the strongest explanation here. Occam's Razor and all that, you know
@UltimateOtaku91 I agree, Microsoft spoke about Project Scorpio officially one year in advance.
It's the way Nintendo does business, unfortunately.
Well, considering that Nintendo has been looking into an upscaling technology themselves, I doubt that they would use Nvidias DLSS to begin with but their own version. Take it with a huge spoonfull of salt, but what if they are on their way with their own technology, and that it's capable of running well on the current Switch versions through the dock?
Nice switch pro can’t wait.
So hold off buying the oled! Because a pro may be around the corner? Sure. However, I will buy the oled as a collector.
@Zag_Man
An external GPU doing 4K processing on top of the internal GPU doing the general graphics rendering is not feasible - USB-C 3.0 bandwidth is simply not fast enough for that to happen.
Gameplay > specs. Don't see why to change a winning formula. Switch is outselling the 4k capable competition. Once 4k Switch is out, there's going to be a petition for 120fps, VR, 8K, haptic feedback, etc. and at the same price as well. Please be realistic.
@SteB83 no Nintendo will not do that. If that was the case, it would have heard rumours about it.
All rumours point towards new hardware.
Why sell you a premium dock for 200 if they can sell you a premium console for 400?
Also, one of the main reasons for this possible Pro would be allowing exclusive, bigger games. Those would then not run on handheld.
So I definitely don't think Nintendo will release a Pro dock only.
I just don’t see a switch pro happening anymore. It will probably be a Switch „2“. A new generation of switches rather than a pro model in the old generation. Because even if we still get a pro model, it will be held back by the limitations of the standard switch.
@danemord I think this would be very silly of Nintendo since they will never achieve the results of DLSS. Maybe this is exactly the reason why the patents didn't go through at Nintendo?
It could also be that the patents are based on DLSS, a custom version for Nintendo.
Developing their own upscaler would be just really silly.
@HenHiro I can see your point - of course they'd rather sell a whole new unit at a higher price. But then again, I wonder if they'd want to alienate a huge number of existing owners? Say for example BOTW2 was exclusive to the "Pro" console (or any other premium title, where you'd want to see a 4k version)... surely Nintendo wouldn't want to alienate all existing owners, including switch lite owners? I would expect 4k games, not to be bigger (more expansive environments), just to have a higher resolution, and this demand could be solved by an enhanced dock. The "new 3DS" exclusive games are a good example of this approach not necessarily being commercially successful for them in the past.
It's what I'd do, but who knows what will happen 😁
I’m a big 4K sceptic when it comes to Switch. Nintendo hasn’t been motivated by tech specs or shown any desire to be technically cutting edge since the GameCube. It’s all about user experience – specifically about ways to play. More than any other major games company, they want to make something you hold in your hands: consoles, kooky controllers, papercraft toys, RC karts…
The 4K stat is too ethereal. Most switch users won’t occupy the ven nook of “has big tv / plays docked / actually notices if something’s 4K”.
The only way it makes sense to me is if “Switch 4K model” is a dock upgrade like “Switch OLED Model” but for people who mostly play docked. In which case, they should build the upscaler into the dock. No need to soup up the handheld. Which would be pretty awesome, and I wouldn’t need to regret getting the OLED!
@TSR3
I'm not arguing what advantages unlocking higher resolution modes on the current Switch would give. I'm just saying that technically with this new dock they could allow them. And in any case HDMI 2.0 adds more than just 4K @ 60fps, it also adds HDR
If we want to travel back into the "there is no Pro" space IMO the best thought is that this is for HDR. The OLED model has a higher dynamic range so it makes sense for Nintendo to think about HDR. HDMI 2.0 is the way you'd deliver that
@HenHiro
As I said, they already have a stockpile of Switch Docks and continue to sell the Switch non-OLED. This dock had some effort put into it. I doubt they did all this in the last year due to some sudden chip shortage for a non-new component.
So as you said, Occam's Razor. Which theory is more likely? That Nintendo had no plans for a higher end SKU at any point, that WSJ is entirely making stuff up and just got lucky with the OLED screen and that at the same time there is a shortage of HDMI 1.4 chips meaning Nintendo put HDMI 2.0 chips in their new dock which was redesigned to, I don't know, add Ethernet?
OR
Nintendo had planned to release a Pro SKU this year. As part of those plans they revised the Dock to support HDMI 2.0 for higher display resolutions and secured supply of some OLED screens to take advantage of HDR. But due to COVID related chip shortages they couldn't secure the new Tegra SoCs which are now slated for a late 2022 release. So they put an X1 SoC in it instead so they could move the OLED screens they had secured. WSJ and others got wind of those plans and reported on them which Nintendo naturally denies as they always do.
Seriously doubt it's HDMI 2.1 which is too new and expensive and needlessly overkill. 8k 60fps / 4k 120fps just isn't needed.
HDMI 2.0 does 4k 60fps. Even that is overkill, but 2.0 is pretty common.
Either way, Switch isn't really powerful enough to output more than 1080p. However, it's good for carrying high quality audio like Dolby Atmos, except, Switch isn't doing that either.
So ya. Probably just the fact 2.0 is the baseline standard now.
@Zag_Man
Beyond the USB bandwidth limitations, for most external GPUs, all of the graphics rendering is done on the eGPU while the internal GPU is bypassed. That won't work for Switch as it needs to be docked and undocked seemlessly.
Undocking a Switch that is running a game entirely off of an eGPU would be the equivalent to ripping out the GPU of a gaming PC while a game is running.
So we've got a dock possibly able to output 4k, developers working on 4k games, a more powerful switch is required to generate said 4k games, the current switch is beyond tired and obviously at some point HAS to be updated. And people still doubt that there will be another version. Silly people.
@JaxonH
RTD2172 -> HDMI 2.0
RTD2173 -> HDMI 2.1
In the video it's clearly RTD2172
@SteB83 I agree, that's why I don't think Nintendo would do exclusives for the 4K model for the time being. Exactly like you said, they would just be as complex as current Switch games, with 4K upscale. Maybe better draw distance, more foliage, better post-processing, stuff like that.
I think Nintendo would then in a couple of years say: "The New Zelda works on Switch 4K, the new SW4K 2, but not on the original Switches, those get the cloud version (or nothing at all)".
But I could see third parties porting games like Assassin's Creed Valhalla exclusively to the 4K one right out of the gate, since the game would just be impossible on the OG Switch anyway, a cloud version would be the only possibility.
@Robokku Furukawa himself said Nintendo did many mistakes in the past, and that from now on, they will use cutting edge hardware. The president of the company said that.
@skywake as I said, I believe the theory with the 4K Switch being intended for 2021, and that it got delayed. I believe the information given by Nate and Bloomberg, and based on those, that makes perfect sense to me.
@YANDMAN I can see why people would be sceptical based on the history of the company, but things change, and there's way too much evidence now.
Stop. The Bloomberg/Eurogamer story was a lie. At best it was a wild guess based on incomplete info, at worst it was just clickbait.
@westman98 that sounds like something really smart you pointed out and I'm sad I don't know enough about PCs to understand it 🤣 lol
@Zag_Man I agree with gameplay over specs, but I and many others would be happy to play the newest Assassin's Creed, COD, next gen FIFA etc. on their Nintendo hybrid system.
I personally would drop Playstation if I could get those on my Nintendo system, even if with slight compromises.
Yea hdmi 2.0 is just more available
They could allow 4K resolution for media applications (like Youtube) at least. Switch could easily handle that.
@HenHiro,
People will continue to report on Switch Pro leaks as long as there are enough gullible people to listen to them, in reality it taps into the denial and unwillingness to accept there was never a Switch Pro in the first place.
@Heavyarms55 So Bloomberg made up the fact that it spoke to 11 different developers about the 4K dev kits?
@Bulborb no not entirely , the switch is losing to PS5 in Europe and that tendency could follow in other regions soon enough.
@johnvboy everything Bloomberg said was right aside of 4K. So why not believe the 4K was delayed like they're saying?
What about the patents? You can not say the Pro is definitely not real at all, there IS evidence it might happen.
I love the first few comments stating that it's the last point, brilliant!
@Zag_Man yes exactly. Like think about the people who buy PS just for multiplats, most people judging by how relatively low even the biggest PS exclusives sell compared to their huge install base.
If Nintendo could steal those customers, I could see a Nintendo system with an install base of well over 170 million or so players.
It doesn't need to match the PS5, Nintendo has NVIDIA on their side, imo the best business partnership decision Nintendo has ever made. PlayStation will never be able to match NVIDIA in upscaling tech, so Nintendo could undercut PS5 in raw power, but make games that look just as good or similar thanks to DLSS. That could already be true with the currently rumored 4K Switch, since sources say it's raw power is PS4 level.
I'm hoping to upgrade to this in December from my Switch Lite. I only play in handheld mode and I have a grip controller case for my Lite. Anyone know where I can get one for the OLED Switch?
@Damo @Heavyarms55 as a Switch 4K sceptic, that’s the only mystery for me in all this – where the Bloomberg report came from. Without wishing to get all conspiracy theorist, Nintendo’s denial of the story is exactly what they’d do if they had another Switch model on the way. (Track record with 3DS XL?) But it wouldn't be the first time Bloomberg have gone out in a limb with anonymous sources that other outlets have failed to verify either. (Cf “The Big Hack” reporting massive compromise of Apple and others a couple of years ago.)
So HDR is a thing now, right?
This is Nintendo people. Do you really think that they have done something remotely forward thinking like this. It will be based purely on costs and availability. We've literally just got BT audio after 4 years and the online is still about 10 years out of date.
@Robokku It's not a conspiracy theory. I personally think it was more likely a wild guess based on incomplete information. But it was also possible that it was deliberately made up just for click bait because companies make their money off of clicks and ad revenue and they wanted something that would draw that attention.
Another less likely possibility is that Bloomberg and Eurogamer were lied to. That their sources lied to them. Seems unlikely to me because I think they'd know better but I concede it's possible.
I'm sure we will, eventually, see a Switch Pro or Switch 2. I think Nintendo would be absolutely insane not to continue the line. But with the Switch OLED coming out soon, I wouldn't expect anything else for, at the VERY LEAST, a full year.
A lot of folks would be very unhappy to buy a Switch OLED only to have Nintendo just drop a Pro model next year.
@Damo Yes, I think that's entirely possible.
More likely, I think they were only given broad, vague details and made their own assumptions.
Bloomberg and Eurogamer make their money off of hype and clickbait. There's financial motive right there.
They were wrong. I don't think it was malicious, I think it was a mistake or greed.
@Yorumi : Exactly. When most major Switch games aren't even running natively at 1080p/60fps, people are absolutely deluded if they think that the Switch's successor, which will likely exceed the base PS4 spec-wise (as the Switch currently surpasses the Wii U, but not by a tremendous deal) is going to pull off 3840x2160 resolution, let alone at the much-desired 60fps.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, Nintendo would be wise to master 1080p with their next console (while perhaps still leaving the door open to 2160p for less demanding games and other apps) instead of pursuing the fool's gold that is UHD.
@Heavyarms55 Speaking for Eurogamer – who we work very closely with – I can assure you that isn't the case, at all. I know the news team there very well and I'm aware of how careful they are when it comes to backing up their reports by speaking to their own sources. You may famously recall that people were saying the same things when EG reported on the Switch / NX reports that it would be based on Nvidia tech and would feature removable controllers (reports we were also able to verify using our own sources).
I personally believe Nintendo is working on a 4K Switch, hence the reports of 4K dev kits, 4K functionality being built into existing products (like the dock) and Nintendo's recent patent for upscaling. I also highly suspect that Nintendo's plans for a 4K-ready Switch were impacted by the chip shortage.
Given that Nintendo has a history of iterating its hardware (look the GBA, DS and 3DS for example) I'm not sure why there's so much scepticism regarding this, but I can appreciate that many people are tired of rumours.
@Silly_G The idea is that you use clever tech (like that mentioned in the Nintendo patent) to upscale the image, so the console isn't actually producing a pure 4K signal. Point taken on the fact that the current Switch struggles to do 1080p a lot of the time, but by using upscaling systems a new Switch could output a 4K signal, for sure.
Can't believe you guys are still beating this dead and buried horse.
@Heavyarms55 it's very unlikely it was just clickbait. Bloomberg is an important publication, they make millions with their reports, they don't need clickbait.
It was most probably just incomplete/ outdated information.
@Heavyarms55 (Sorry for the double-reply here, only just seen this other message)
"I'm sure we will, eventually, see a Switch Pro or Switch 2. I think Nintendo would be absolutely insane not to continue the line. But with the Switch OLED coming out soon, I wouldn't expect anything else for, at the VERY LEAST, a full year."
I agree with you 100% - I can't see the Pro model coming until at least the end of 2022, if not early 2023. Which is exactly why we're seeing reports of developers working on 4K dev kits, the dock being updated 'behind the scenes' and Nintendo working on upscaling tech. No one is suggesting the Pro is going to release next week - it's clearly some way off.
@HenHiro Any rumour is false unless it's confirmed by Nintendo. Switch Pro rumors have been here since early 2017, so already 4 years ago.
Also Nintendo never named their console "Pro". That's not going to change.
And generational sales are very good profit for Nintendo which allows them to sell upgraded versions of older games. They don't make a lot of money on the console alone. Also incapability with newer games is a problem for the non-techsavy audience.
So a game would need to be able to run on any Switch hardware if there was a Pro. Limiting the actual power of the Pro.
A generational leap will allow them to make "exclusive" games for the new console, while allowing backward compatibility with older games.
There is absolutely NO chance there will EVER be a Switch Pro. There might be a Switch OLED 4K someday, there might be a "next-gen console" with 4K. There will be NO PRO.
Also 2023 the Switch will be 6 years old, which is usually the beginning of a new generation.
So in the end:
There is NO Switch Pro.
There wasn't one on 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020 or 2021. There won't be one in 2022 and in 2023 Nintendo will announce the next generation.
@Silly_G DLSS. Nintendo patents. Google it.
Let it go. 4K Switch isn't happening.
I don't see Nintendo releasing another iteration of the current Switch. Any new console coming from the company at this point should be the successor to the Switch and not some minor hardware adjustment to let it hit 4K resolution.
Honestly, what good would it really do? So it looks clearer on a 4K screen?
Great, but developers will still need to work within the confines of the current Switch hardware.
I love the Switch - it's been a great system; but I think it's time to focus on the next big thing from Nintendo, now.
It's almost as if Nintendo is taking every single option to graphically improve their hardware EXCEPT for increasing the resolution. They're min-maxing the heck out of anything that improves graphics without the resolution.
That being said, a 4K-ready dock doesn't seem at all that useful if the dock itself is still unable to upscale the resolution beyond 1080p. Maybe 1440p would be possible, but with the limits imposed from USB-C and the dock's motherboard, I can't see it ever going up to 4k.
Well, has the technology matured enough to have a portable gaming console with enough horse power (to actually output a 4K graphics)? Not likely.
4K upscale? Likely
@sanderev They might not end up calling it a Switch Pro but mark my words, Nintendo IS working on a true, next gen successor to the Switch.
@GamingFan4Lyf too early for a successor. It will be either an upgrade, or the phone model.
A next console would not release before 2024, so a enhanced model in 2022 is nothing other companies haven't done.
@Ravenmaster I never said they weren't.
I think it will be the "Nintendo Switch 2" or (more likely) a completely new name.
@HenHiro The next gen will come in 2023.
Even a Pro Switch wouldn't be able to handle full next gen games, so they would need a more subnational upgrade. (More ram, faster ram, faster ssd, beter SoC, etc) This would make newer games incompatible with the current Switch, making it a generational upgrade.
@sanderev that line of thinking doesn't make sense. A rumour is a rumour, it's neither false or right until it gets confirmed. The frist serious 4K rumours from trustworthy sources started last year, not in 2017.
No one is saying it's actually gonna be called "Pro", we just call it that to make clear what the idea behind it is, comparing it to the PS4 Pro. It's easier than saying "enhanced Switch" or whatever.
" They don't make a lot of money on the console alone" that supports the idea of a phone model starting with an enhanced Switch Pro. They make money with software mostly.
The biggest problem with generations is that you completely restart your install base in the transition. Nintendo suffered because of that with the Wii to Wii U. So I can definitely see their fear to release a next platform at all, instead of sticking to the Switch environment.
The thing with game compatibility is nothing Nintendo hasn't done before. It probably will be similar to the New 3DS, some exclusives, most games work on both. When Nintendo then release the "Switch Pro 2", they abandon the OG Switch, and continue to support the first Switch Pro.
This would be a very smooth way to keep their install base, by still releasing new hardware.
@sanderev The next gen will not come in 2023, 100% not. This would be less than 7 years, there's no reason for Nintendo to do that.
I hope you understand the concept of upscaling, with that, the Switch Pro would be able to get Gen 9 ports running at lower resolutions, but with better upscaling than other platforms, because it's NVIDIA. It doesn't need to even come close to PS5 in raw power.
Proof to that, is that most next gen games are still coming to even the Xbox One Fat, which isn't much more powerful than the Tegra X1 at full clock.
@HenHiro Yeah, no. Current gen games feature stuff like direct access, which the Switch just can't do. (nor the PS4 or XBOX ONE). Games that require this are still rare but in 2023 I think most games will require it. Nintendo would need to answer that, and a Switch Pro would never be able to do so. For instance Microsoft released Windows 11 yesterday, which allows PC games to use direct access as well. Which requires a modern CPU and a current gen GPU combined with fast NVME
PCI-e 4.0 storage.
Remember 2023 is still 2 years away.
@sanderev there will be enough Gen 9 games that can be ported. Not all, but many. By the time this isn't the case anymore, they can release a Switch Pro 2. Simple as that.
4K60fps is not standard on PS5/Series X yet people think Nintendo of all things is creating a mid gen upgrade what can do that, hilarious.
@HenHiro Switch Pro 2 🤣😂😂🤣🤣🤣
There won't be a Switch Pro.
And Nintendo doesn't just add a number to a console and call it a second edition.
Next Nintendo console will be called something new.
There will be NO Switch Pro.
The only reason why current games are still on older hardware is because current hardware is quite difficult to get right now due to the chip shortages. Once those go away (late 2022) and production of the PS5 & Series X will ramp up. Then they will stop releasing the same games on PS4 and XBOX One.
Realistically it was probably just cheaper to source the newer 4k ready components rather than find old ones as there's really no particular reason to make the dock 4k ready if the Switch can't handle a 4k signal.
Perhaps you get the option to buy next Switch without dock, if you already have this one.
SWITCH PRO CONFIRMED!
(Sometimes it’s fun to pour gasoline on a flame 😁)
@HenHirom,
The original Bloomberg rumour was two parts, the possibility of Nintendo releasing a handheld Switch with no dock facility, which to honest was pretty much a given, considering Nintendo have run with two consoles each generation for ages now.
And at come point a Switch revision with better quality components, which again Nintendo have done for generations now, not sure where the massive revelations come in, apart from them fleshing out this obvious rumour with a pro and 4K thrown in.
@Snoyflake,
I would say this comment section, and previous ones, do not want to face the reality a Switch Pro console is not, and was never coming in the first place.
“ Perhaps – and this is the least exciting theory of them all – it's just harder to get HDMI 1.4 cables and controllers these days, so Nintendo has opted to use the more commonly-availably HDMI 2.0 versions?”
No ***** that shouldn’t have been the closing line. The HDMI Licensing Administrator probably stopped licensing out 1.4 for new products.
@SalvorHardin,
At last some sanity brought to the thread.
@Zag_Man Can totally see your angle. But then N is competing in an arms race it will never win because it's making money on the hardware while competitors lose money on hardware.
Look for example at gamecube, missing out on lots of 3rd party titles (GTA, SW:KTOR, Dead or Alive, etc) because of hardware limitations. But we did get some awesome games instead because Nintendo needed to step up and compensate the lack of 3rd party support. https://www.nintendolife.com/guides/best-gamecube-games
I prefer those original titles above ports anytime.
@HenHiro
Xbox One X and PS4 Pro were also 4K capable.
@Cia I hear it will support 64k resolution so it’s going to be called the Ultra SwitchyFour.
@Zag_Man also, the Steam Deck is using AMD technology, or CISC based hardware. It takes more effort to shrink down the hardware Valve is using whereas NVIDIA is built from a smaller chip to begin with. An external processing unit... possibly on board the dock? I can't see Nintendo trying to make this confusing for consumers.
However, the TV-only unit... pretty sure that'll come out. Switch Shield-TV. Unless the new dock addresses the issues of the old one where longer play sessions aren't going to hurt it?
Looking forward to picking up the OLED this week!
@Bulborb the Switch is also 4K capable in theory with the Tegra X1. So this would be "even more true" for the Switch Pro.
@johnvboy yes and they were right about both. They were right about the OLED screen. So why do you doubt their right with the 4K model?
@Bulborb again, DLSS. Upscaling. Competing in hardware power isn't the point, the point is having better upscaling software. And DLSS is far better than any other upscaler right now.
All the recent usb c docks are 4K ready. It uses the new usb c standards today. Stop reading into this as switch pro. The switch successor, switch 2 or whatever it is called is where these rumors are probably for. Plus thanks to last year’s record sales and Covid that system is probably a year off now. So 2023 is the year they announce it and maybe even release it.
@sanderev you have no evidence to say there will never be a Switch Pro. You can keep shouting "No Switch Pro", but that doesn't add anything to the discussion, and doesn't make sense as an argument. Right now, all evidence points towards a Pro model being real.
You're arguing unnecessarily about names, you should be able to realize that we are not discussing the names, but the concepts behind the names. I'm not saying the console would be called "Switch Pro 2", I think you should be smart enough to understand that.
NIN trying to hide but the horse is out of the Barn. Like I and other said 4K was coming but we have alots of NintenDoomed fandom trying to mislead as much as possible. The Hardware update is proof enough something is in the work and it going towards a 4k/DLSS system. It's no wonder NIN tried to deny this because it would affect PreOrder of OLED Switches for upgraders not new Switch buyers. And we have lots of current and older Switch users whom would wait for the 4k/DLSS system for PreOrder. I think it's coming out sooner then people like to think with a Dock already having 4k chipset that already tell and confirms the Bloomberg news that it's already in the pipeline.
@sanderev Nintendo said they want to support the Switch for 10 years. This could mean 7-8 years as a main platform + 2-3 years of cross gen, but most certainly not 6 years + 4 years of cross gen, they will not do that.
A new platform in 2023 is completely out of the question, it's 2024 at the earliest, imo 2025 is even more realistic.
The Switch Pro is not a portable unit. It's a small home console that connects to the TV - where 4K makes sense. You don't need 4K on a portable unit, that's why it's not in the OLED model.
For existing Switch owners who bought the Switch Pro, they can use their current Switch as a wireless controller - this gives them the same Wiii U tablet experience. Nintendo will update old games to support this 'Wii U' feature - like displaying map on the controller screen in BotW.
I bet when the returns window ends on my OLED Switch they announce Switch Pro!
This supports my theory that OLED Switch was a salvage project of a cancelled or postponed “Pro”/Switch 2.
@westman98 Nah... You're wrong about that.
Nintendo even has a patent for a "supplemental computing device" from a few years back. So it's something they are considering.
DLSS does not require two-way communication (it would be implemented as a pipeline) so your argument about the bandwidth doesn't matter. The GPU on the dock would not need to communicate back to the unit.
You can check out the paper here https://research.fb.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/Neural-Supersampling-for-Real-time-Rendering.pdf
I don't know how or if it will get implemented in next iteration of the Switch, though.
@NoTinderLife The Switch Pro is a Switch that can switch, it is portable. That's the infos that we have and that's what makes sense.
It's a tablet that runs games at up to 720p on handheld, on dock it's upscaling to 4K.
@HenHiro Google "Switch Calcio" will open your eyes. Calcio is the codename for a Switch home unit that Nintendo is still actively working on.
https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2021/01/rumour_datamine_apparently_reveals_all_about_the_new_nintendo_switch_revision
"Aula" turns out to be the OLED Switch and "Calcio" is the TV unit that will comes out later. So you see: the clues were discovered many months ago.
If it isn't Goku mentions for Smash getting folks undies in a bunch, it's Switch Pro rumors, lol. It's just video games. And sure, its endless speculation and rumors. Why not try to have fun with it. It's not like it hurts or takes away from what Nintendo and the Switch is doing now.
As for what I think personally, I'll take the educated guess in saying there were probably plans for a such a device. In fact, I assume there were plans for quite a bit of things that, unfortunately, got upended due to the pandemic. Nintendo had to pivot and it's probably how we got the OLED model as an alternative.
I honestly don't see the point in the article. 4k HDMI cables are more mass produced and more standard and so probably cheaper for them to buy in mass quantities and the same goes for the HDMI port itself. The old non 4k ones may not even be in production now and Nintendo is still a decade behind everyone else.
So the only news here is Nintendo's tech is outdated so the only option is for current generation parts.
@HenHiro,
They were right about features on a console that must have already been in production, and we knew Nintendo had approached a manufacturer about OLED screens, hardly the amazing revelations some are making out.
Still not sure where the Switch Pro fits into all this.
@johnvboy that's a good point, and that's why we are not saying the Switch Pro is coming for sure, but there is enough evidence to say it is very likely.
We have official patents from Nintendo with technology that has been developed for years that could only be used in a new hardware.
Nintendo said again and again that they want to support the Switch for 10 years, and that they want to stretch the switch's lifespan, thus the assumption that this is not their next platform, but an upgraded model.
Bloomberg and other sources say there are dev kits. Especially Digital Foundry claims that this is definitely the case, and they were the only ones that were right about the hardware coming in 2021 being an OLED model and not the Pro yet, but they also claim that a 4K DLSS Switch is definitely in development.
So for me, reasonable people should be able to realize that the Pro is indeed very likely.
I wouldn't say its harder to get 1.4 controllers and cables for HDMI, but I will say that this is like a cost preventative measure for the future. So another kind of future proofing.
1) As parts go out circulation they tend to become more expensive, requiring Nintendo to either pay someone to support the old standard specifically for them. In this case its better to just use the backward compatible standard when you redesign your dock. Which Nintendo clearly did.
2) I wouldn't assume that my first point is the only point. While justifying that shift Nintendo must realize that they have painted themselves into a corner for their next Hardware Platform. It has to be another Switch like device. So I would not be surprised if they already decided that the heart of the machine will still maintain the same size and shape. Maybe stand a little taller out of the dock, but beyond that it'll be designed to fit in the system. This is a good move to some degree. Could mean Nintendo is serious about maintaining backward compatibility with peripherals for next gen. May also indicate another issue. A Switch 2 without a dock, if you have a switch then you can dock the new one in the old 2.0 dock. Which would kind of suck, because they you'd be expected to provide hardware for the old system. So that could mean two things, you'll be expected to buy another dock separately and that they might just include the power adapter in the box initially. Nintendo's expectation in that case is that anyone using the TV will be using the only dock in the home for the only TV. Those with multiple docks already (like myself with version 1.4) will already have a dock on every TV. I will be looking to update my docks to 2.0 once they are available. Even if I still have a launch switch. That Network port is worth it to me. So it would sour me a bit.
Other devices like the PS4 Pro don't really have to worry about the obscellesence factor of HDMI 1.4. Sony is usually pretty good and much more flexible about swapping out parts for alternative versions of their hardware. Even then the system will likely be discontinued before it ever becomes a real issue. Hell even the PS2 was eof before 1gig network adapters were the norm in most countries (though available for anyone picky about facts).
@roboshort
eGPU != DLSS. DLSS would work, an eGPU wouldn't.
That Nintendo supplemental computing device patent from ~7 years ago was also not an eGPU nor was it DLSS.
@HenHiro,
Depends on how much you trust those rumours, Nintendo have denied the development kits exist, which is a tough situation for either side of the argument, as the no Switch Pro camp will see it as further verification, and the other side will just claim that's what Nintendo were bound to say.
I look at the whole Nintendo history, and only once with the New 3DS did they improve the power on a mid generation revision, more times then not, they have simply improved the screen and size.
I feel we will have to wait for the Switch successor before we get more power, and not sure how 4K output would benefit the console in it's existing form anyway.
@NoTinderLife "Calcio has no gamecard slot and no battery". That sounds more like a prototype or early dev kit than anything that will get released to the wild.
Pretty sure all HDMI nowadays are 2.0 so this is just Nintendo using the at the moment cables and controllers and not the discontinued 1.4 versions from 4 years ago. This is true since the Switch OLED hardware doesn't had 4K capable specs.
If Nintendo is putting HDMI 2.0 ports on the Dock, it's probably because HDMI 1.4 ports are no longer being made by chip manufacturers.
But this doesn't mean the Switch OLED will support HDR and 4K 60fps. For that, Nintendo would need a new SoC from Nvidia that supports those features.
The upcoming Ada Lovelace SoC will almost definitely support HDR and 4K 60fps when docked, as the chip supports DLSS.
Only trouble is, the Lovelace architecture won't be readily available until late August/early September 2022 (about the time when Nvidia will release its Lovelace RTX 4000 series graphics cards).
@Iggy-Koopa Yes! #VJAllDAY
Was thinking of buying the dock separately for my Mariko switch because I prefer the white & the WiFi on the switch isn't great so having an ethernet port would be nice but depends on the price
My assumption is still that Bloomberg is talking to people who either got hands on with a previously expected but cancelled due to shortages "Pro" that ended up becoming the OLED, or a preview for the eventual "Switch 2." Whatever was in the works, it would be unfathomable for them to release a new revision of the Switch (other than an OLED Lite) in the next year, after just launching a new model and marketing it. Too much market confusion to have an annual new console which could cause people to "wait" for the next one, lowering sales. Nintendo favors the "everyone buy the same thing at the same time until everyone has one, then sell the next thing" approach to the "have scheduled refreshes and catch part of the market as it's available" model that phones and tablets do. I don't imagine they'd want to pull out new hardware until they feel OLED saturated its potential market. That won't happen in a year. And doing anything else would be marked departure from the one reliable thing of Nintendo's business strategy.
Nintendo will Nintendo, so who knows, but I can't imagine they'd think the market prospect of that schedule would be favorable for the expense. It wouldn't make sense to do it within a year of OLD, and if it's more than a year after OLED, we're into year 6, heading toward year 7 of the system, at which point they'd really be crazy not to refit it and remarket it as a successor console with a separate library.
The outlier is, especially with rumors of Apple and others coming out with their own competitor systems, Nintendo, which shies away from direct big-tech competition, could easily end up having to bail on the hybrid market and move onto a "Revolution" type blue ocean again. They can't take on Apple in a direct marketing war, no matter how beloved Mario is. If that's the plan then they WOULD try to milk current Switch with a Switch Pro, but that would be instead of a Switch 2, which would instead end up as a "new concept system" type deal like the Wii or DS.
In fact, now that OLED is out and being marketed heavily, I think the only scenario in which a "Switch Pro" exists is if they're absolutely not doing a Switch 2 at all, and moving onto a new concept. Switch Pro would be a legacy swan song for Switch to go to pasture with over time. And we'll have our new fitnes-jumprope controlled console incoming. OLED kind of cemented the position of Switch, for the next 2 years, I'd think.
@Damo Okay I think we're essentially of the same opinion then.
@Yorumi well you will not get over 60 fps or ray tracing. You're outta luck I guess.
Hahaha seri... They aint fooling me again.
For that i'm gonna buy the steam deck. We aint getting a pro anytime soon.
Switch i play now only for the first party games.
@johnvboy what Nintendo says doesn't mean anything when the company is known for lying all the time when it comes to comment on rumours. They have no credibility.
There are much more reasons to think the information from Bloomberg is true than to discredit them.
Again, Furukawa himself said they are going for cutting edge tecnology, so the argument "Nintendo historically doesn't do that" doesn't hold any water. Those types of arguments are not convincing in general, people never thought Nintendo would do a handheld with two screens, a 3D handheld, a hybrid system.
Things do change.
@Cia
from what i gather the reason people were calling it a "pro" was because in theory it would have been like the ps4 "pro" offering a performance boost similar to that, it felt less a name for a system and more a concept.
then "pro" just sort of became a catch all term for any future switch hardware to the point where there were articles referring to the OLED model as a "switch pro" despite it not offering any performance upgrades.
Hopefully it wont be called the "new nintendo switch" like what happened with the 3ds.
i feel like as unimaginative as the names are, the playstation series of consoles does at least make things simple with just higher numbers wheres "xbox one" was already what people were calling the original xbox, then there was the whole xbox one X, Xbox series X, S etc.
im hoping whatever the name a theoretical switch upgrade/successor has it at least makes it clear what it is, though the switch reveal trailer did show that they didnt want to repeat the wiius mistake (switch trailer pretty much showing what it was, wiius trailer was all over the place and mentioned "the new controller" constantly)
@Yorumi also, you're completely underestimating what DLSS can do.
1- The Pro would have better hardware. So even if you play it in 1080p, you will get way better visuals.
2- With upscaling, you can make the game way more visually complex, because it can be rendered at very low resolutions. I assume you like Pokémon? Legends Arceus could, for example, offer high res textures, more details like way more blades of grass, higher draw distances, improved lgihting if they want to. And all of that even if you keep playing in 1080p.
The funny thing is I've used the HDMI cable for my current Switch on my PC and PS5 and its handled 4K 60FPS just fine, even did HDR. I don't think this is a new thing.
@Specter_of-the_OLED exactly. I have the 2019 Mariko Switch and as stated above, the HDMI supports 4K just fine.
@HenHiro,
Sounds like you are trying to convince yourself more than anything else, normally Nintendo do not comment on these rumors, but in this case they have, does not mean they are lying.
@Yorumi DLSS is quickly improving, and Nintendo is doing some work themselves, uspcaled 4K will looked good.
You say you understand it, but you keep completely ignoring all the improvements it could bring that I mentioned, instead you keep complaining about the quality of the upscaling.
@johnvboy you obviously do not follow Nintendo very closely or have bad memory.
They always commented on these rumours, they did that even back in the DS era (and of course, they lied). What's new is that they're commenting it on their business twitter account.
So when does the dock itself go on sale? I've used my original only once. I'd like to upgrade to an official one that hopefully won't damage my screen.
@HenHiro,
Nintendo could not have commented on all these Switch pro rumors, they wouldn't have had the time.
@westman98 DLSS uses a gpu to run so it would need an external gpu if they implemented it on the dock.
NVidia uses so-called tensor cores for DLSS2, which are a type of specialized gpu. But you can implement similar technology on a regular gpu.
@nhSnork Shhh, don't say that Nintendo is still following console generations around people in this comment section. Some of them believe the delusion that generations are fully dead.
@roboshort
Tensor cores are not a "specialized gpu" - they are processors integrated into the silicon of existing Nvidia GPUs that are specifically designed to rapidly perform sparse matrix multiplications, which is necessary to maintain the AI neural network that powers DLSS.
Every modern Nvidia GPU contains tensor cores. Provided that Nintendo sticks with Nvidia as their hardware vendor, the Switch Pro or 2 will have a GPU with Tensor cores, so I see no reason why people keep bringing up external dock GPUs or supplemental computing device patents when DLSS alone will make future hardware Nintendo 4K-ready (especially now that the Switch OLED dock is also 4K-ready).
@Lugazz No. Nononono. That's not at all how it works.
An HDMI cable is an HDMI cable. It either supports the standard or it doesn't. Plenty of cables made before the 2.0 standard still work with 2.0 signals just because they happen to be good enough to carry the signal. All making a HDMI 1.4 cable means is making a worse cable. You don't have to "find" them. They are automatically available and cheaper to acquire.
The idea that HDMI 2.0 controllers are cheaper to acquire seems bogus to me as well. If anything, 1.4 should be cheaper, even MUCH cheaper, depending on the circumstances. People still included micro usb ports on phones and gadgets long, long after usb C became the de facto standard because it saved PENNIES, which add up over the course of thousands or millions of units. In fact, they still sell the Razer Viper Ultimate, an expensive gaming mouse, with a micro usb port (which is completely unacceptable, by the way), even though its an outdated, dumb port that nobody wants. Add this on to the fact that multiple 3rd party docks today still only support up to 4k 30hz (HDMI 1.4), and this idea seems increasingly unlikely.
If anything, this is overwhelmingly likely to be future proofing. But how far in the future? No one can really say. Whenever Nintendo feels like they can get a sizable fresh baked supply of new silicon and stick it in a handheld, I guess. My guess is any new switch would just be an OLED model with new silicon stuck in it, whenever that would happen.
So will the switch finally be able to display 4k youtube? If it gets netflix and prime in 4k I'm selling off the new xbox.
@TSR3 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_TV
I think it will be similar to the Playstation TV but fully digital and no gamecard slot. It can be sold at a very cheap price without the screen and joycons. People who only wants to play on TV will love something like this.
@Yorumi you obviously never had a proper look at 4K, or maybe you need glasses?
That whole biology thing is complete bs, do research before you claim things like that, I would like to see a valid scientific source backing that claim. The human eye can see the difference between 1080p and 4K very well, just because you haven't experienced it, it doesn't mean that it's biologically impossible.
Also, you probably never seen a current DLSS demo. It's currently generating imagery that looks better than native 4K, it adds details that aren't there.
I just don't have time for conspiracy theories of whether or not OLED was going to be a Pro. It's more likely that the reporting wasn't 100% accurate.
@thebiophysicist If you just want to stream 4K video, you can get a cheap android box or an Apple TV to do that.
BotW has been made to play in 4k. Or some sort of upscaling.
@HenHiro DLSS will never look better than native 4K. Except on systems that can't run native 4K on the same level of quality as 1080p or 1440p.
If you have a system that does 2160p native at 120fps (or higher) it will look better than DLSS. But yeah, you'll need a monster of a GPU to do that (RTX 3080 - RTX 3090)
From everything I've read the new dock's new HDMI 2.0 (4K ready) chip is actually specially wired to run the network adapter. So in this scenario it's likely that there is no 4K output option if the network adapter is in use. It would be nice if the dock supported 4K as that is the limiting factor on the Switch right now. Technically several games could run at 4K on the current hardware including Snipperclips, Tetris 99 and others. Obviously don't expect Breath of the Wild or Mario Kart 8 Deluxe in 4K 60fps with the current hardware.
@Notyu1459 I'm completely unaware of the market availability of HDMI cables and controllers. If Nintendo could get as much units of the 1.4 version and in the time frame they needed for the Switch OLED launch, then for sure there is a reason they opted for the 2.0 version. Also, I have no idea for how long manufacturers plan to keep offering HDMI 1.4.
I agree that this is quite possible future proofing, already working on the validation of such components for their hardware. I think they will offer 4K resolution in their next console, whenever it comes out. But as of now and until we get actual info, we can't really tell. Let's wait and see!
Well it's not like the switch couldn't THEORETICALLY output 4K.
Probably just a rather limited number of situations where it would be feasible.
If it was HDMI 2.1 that would be exciting.
@Gwynbleidd Well they do have a grip controller on Amazon that is adjustable so it looks like the only thing currently compatible with the OLED. Mid December is when I'll have the extra money to get one. By then there should be more grip controller options.
@HenHiro
Would prefer that as well, using an upscaler, preferably in the dock. Means the console hardware can stay lean and mean, the filesize of the games can stay 'smaller', so that we can still keep the cards and the same pricelevel of the games. And if you don't need 4K, one can still use the standard dock.
@VoidofLight eh, let's cut these kids some slack - must be hard thinking in generations when your shiny new phone is labeled almost officially obsolete in eighteen months tops.😆
@Lugazz @MS7000 Great minds think alike
@NEStalgia
With you on all of that until the last couple of paragraphs. I think we would have seen a refresh this year if it had been practical. Now I think all Nintendo’s energy will be focussed on a proper Switch 2 in early/mid-2023, around the 6-year anniversary mark. It’ll be backwards compatible but a decent leap in tech.
Future proof is good, as that to me either suggests that Nintendo wants to make sure as many TVs as possible can take advantage of the OLED or that the Successor (actual successor not a revision) is being set up so that it can use this same dock type with likely a change in the branding. (similar to the way the wiiu was positioned as being fully bc/similar to its predecessor) The OLED has a great design, so I can see Nintendo just beefing up internals for the successor without making major changes to the actual chassis. As always though, I will wait on official announcements.
I wish they could figure out some way to bring back and improve upon the gamepad though.
@electrolite77 Generally agree, though I think 2023 is the earliest chance. It will depend on how well current system sales are doing. With cycles running 7+ years for PSXBWiiDS, I don't see them wanting to kill off their super-selling system until they absolutely have to. With them talking about a longer generation over and over, I think as long as this one maintains sales they'll push off the successor to maximize this one. Nintendo's not one to move on in tech just because tech has moved on. They do it only to spur sales once they lag, with the exception of Yamauchi pushing along N64 when PS1 3d was putting Mode 7 to shame.
Normally I'd think sales would drop by 2023, but, with Switch, who knows.
@Ryu_Niiyama I'm pretty sure the new Virtual Boy will feature an updated Game Pad........
@NEStalgia ok. I can't use VR so that would not be of any use to me.
@Ryu_Niiyama Coincidentally, no one can use Virtual Boy for more than a few minutes and it wasn't any use to anyone.
->Virtual Boy Owner<-
Nintendo are always working on new hardware. It looks like their current plan is new iterations every two years. I don't think they have an actual "Switch Pro" planned. To my mind we've already had two Switch Pros, first better battery life, second better screen. If and when they decide a faster CPU/GPU is cost effective we might get Switch 4 with improved graphics.
"Insiders" have been reporting that Nintendo is working on a 4K Switch Pro and planning on releasing it within the year for 4 damm years.
Realistically, it's just that the older standard is harder to get now, so they used newer ones.
OMG, here we go again! No wonder ppl believe 80 million people actually voted for Biden (more than voted for Barack Obama, who can actually draw a crowd of more than 4 people), cuz it seems they'll believe anything these days.
This makes ZERO sense. Yiu think they would come out with a new switch that wouldn't come with it's own dock? So people have to use their OLED version, lol? Or, that they need to save money & make a "switch pro" exactly the same size to fit on these old docks to save money, cuz Nintendo are so tight they couldn't afford for it to have it's own design, assembly wise? Okaaaaaay.
I'm honestly more excited for a more powerful Switch. Games like Bayonetta 3 and BoTW2 will definitely need it to look the best they can. Besides, I don't think 4K would look pretty with very compromised textures and effects.
Plus, there would be no need for cloud streaming-only games, maybe except for PS5/Xbox Series exclusives like The Medium...
Besides, if you want tech like upscaling, you need a new chipset. Tegra X1 is based on Maxwell GPU. DLSS is for Ampere and beyond I think.
I'll just think of this as a hint of next-gen Nintendo.
I keep saying there’s a 4k switch on the way at least. Christ man how real-world anti-social are people on this site? Befriend game devs, or do what I did which was make a lot of games in the old days and remain in touch with old buds, old CEOs et al
I didn’t even know about that Bloomberg article. But more proof for those few lunatics who don’t believe me (I too hate it when I come across the rare person who is better than me and correct more often too. Super rare these days).
I like how the gaming press pretends they don’t know what’s going on backstage too. All those off the record chats.
@HenHiro It literally cannot not happen. If this were the case we'd all still be playing the NES.
@Rpg-lover
I have the same thought.
@kalosn you don't understand how it works. It's upscaling, the textures don't need to be anything near 4K.
@sanderev dude, you don't know DLSS. Look at stuff before you make claims.
There is DLSS footage that DOES look beter thsn 4K, inform yourself if youcall yourself a gamer.
Someone explain to me- what the f*** is a "FuTurE ProoF"
Well, since they've scrapped all 4K plans entirely and forever COUGH they just needed to get rid of this stock they had laying around.
@JustMonika I don’t think any are out yet. I’m sure the accessory makers are scrambling to push out new models before the holiday season, but for whatever reason the OLED is just slightly bigger than the regular, so it seems like most existing grip accessories will not work with both the original switch and the OLED model. I would bet that OLED compatible accessories are coming fairly soon, though
@armfish They have some already for OLED because they're adjustable. Skull has one for $15.
@HenHiro In which part did I ever mention "4K textures"?
I was talking about the fact that many Switch ports tend to reduce the overall texture resolution, and such they tend to look heavily compressed even when upscaled (i.e Doom, The Outer Worlds, Apex Legends...). There needs to be enough memory to maintain the same texture resolution found in PS4 for example, like 8GB.
@Lugazz I don't know why some Switch fanboys are so desperate to believe there will be no follow up, I do believe however that the Pro model was cancelled due to the silicone shortage and just became Oled.
Switch 2 will launch next year and will release with Zelda. The Switch sales are on the brink of collapse, they are falling away like its framerates, much like the Wii did, however this time Nintendo are prepared.
@NEStalgia Sales are already dropping, the Switch is dead. Nintendo would be playing a major risk not capitalising on the brand considering what happened with Wii U. The Wii collapsed in 2009 and Nintendo didn't bother following it up until 2012 and by that time the Wii brand was dead, hence why they didn't bother promoting Wii U - Nintendo knew it was too late and their dev teams where lost.
Switch 2 is in production now, so stock will be abundant and ready to launch with Zelda in late 2022. 🤫😉
I did read this already. Or at least it can upscale to almost 4K (if I've explained this correctly, not being technical).
So the good news could be 'by any other name its a Switch Pro'.
This will happen to coincide with BotW 2.
Sorted.
@liveswired Hilarious. Loving the hate.
@kalosn no games on Switch are upscaled, but I know what you mean. Yes, the ram on Switch is ridiculous and that has an impact on textures.
I really don’t care anymore. Release a better switch and make it easy to get and I’ll buy one…if it has a good library.
4K 60hz via HDMI 2.0 is anything but future proof. PC's, Xbox Series X and PS5 are already up to 4K 120hz via HDMI 2.1
@Ravenmaster
absolutely future proof for Nintendo Switch It doesn't make sense to compare it to the other systems
@danemord The thing is, people DO compare the Switch to other systems and Nintendo needs to realise this. It is almost 2 generations behind now hardware-wise and we need the next Switch to be able to work in tandem properly at good frame rates with current gen 4K TV's and not look blurry with zero anti-aliasing. Just imagine it - a Switch that has all the great gameplay AND good graphics.
@Ravenmaster
I can understand where all the comparisons are coming from, but improving the hardware for something that small and compact takes time. The Steam Deck is the prime example of a manufacturer spending too much money (as noted in an interview, where Valve claims that it was very difficult to get the base model to be priced as low as $400 USD).
Nintendo doesn't necessarily need to "catch up" all the way to the point where their hardware matches the PS5/XSX. That would be unrealistic and expensive for a hybrid console. They just need to make hardware that can at least run PS5/XSX games properly, only requiring a small downgrade in the process of porting. Unfortunately, aside from manufacturing costs, storage is another factor to consider.
However, as someone who doesn't find it a problem that Nintendo is lagging behind, I don't really care when Nintendo gets to 4K.
Sigh. HDMI 1.4 is over a decade old and has since long been superceded by HDMI 2.x long ago.
So it's not unthinkable that HDMI 1.4 hardware has run dry by now and no longer available.
Wait a few years: Switch to output YouTube in 4K
@ModdedInkling As a portable console, the Switch is absolutely rocking. But when docked, it is severaly lacking in that it doesn't pair up very well with current gen 4K TV's. The pixilation from upscaling 900p to 4K does not sit well with the eyes. There's a bit of blurring and a lot of jaggies due to the lack of anti-aliasing.
Nvidia's new architecture 'Lovelace' will no doubt remedy this as a Lovelace SoC will support DLSS. It will allow AI upscaling to 4K without taking a huge frame rate hit and also keeping the visual quality as close to native 4K as possible.
Nvidia's Lovelace chips will be coming to RTX 4000 series graphics cards in September 2022. So we can probably expect they'll have the new Lovelace SoC ready for Nintendo's next console at a similar time.
Means nothing until Nintendo says something
I’m probably too far down for anyone to read this haha, but I think this is being done not to be compatible with a switch pro, but more likely a switch 2.
If you consider switch a home console, Nintendo tends to release new hardware between year 5 and 6. Which would be better March ‘22 and ‘23.
Momentum is still high, which could push this to the latter end of this. But if they choose a style of system that resembles the current switch, it could be a smooth transition.
Also an early ‘23 would be helpful with the rush on ps5 xsx dying down (ha-hopefully). Nintendo releasing its next hardware more in the middle of the other next gen systems may be the new normal, and a wise move. Keeping a handheld hybrid would also keep the systems power being impressive in a mid range instead of going all out.
Oh, and you can still use your oled dock.
Remember the new controller patent-we thought it was referencing the n64 genesis controllers? What if they are joycons 2.0?
You read it here first.
If a 4k 60fps Nintendo Switch ever did exist, now THAT would be be the one for me to purchase. I won't be holding my breath on this one though since the Nintendo Switch is already closing in on half the life cycle of a normal Nintendo console. Perhaps their next console if they continue down the Nintendo Switch route would support it.
Hasn't anyone seen in the options that you can update the dock!! The original Switch wasn't able to update the dock, so why does the OLED Switch? This could mean that sooner or later the current OLED Switch could output in 4K.
@Ravenmaster
I never found an issue when playing the Switch on my 4K TV. Upscaling from 1080p (maximum output from dock) to 2160p isn't that bad unless you sit really close to the TV.
I think at this point, Nintendo will be shooting themselves in the foot if they don't use DLSS in their next console, but it still feels a little too early to talk about the next Nintendo console
I reckon they'll announce it at E3 next year
@Zag_Man
We can only hope, though honestly, my standards are so low that I frankly wouldn't care either way. I've played through 300 hours of Age of Calamity and it was only on very few occasions where I found the graphics to be disgustingly bad and the frame rate to be annoyingly low.
I don't know if 4K 60fps is future proof. I am future proofed, since my parents named me after the 120fps refresh rate. Yes, this is my real name (lol!). So I'm certainly glad that I'm future proof, but I wish my best friend the Switch was also : )
Maybe they plan Netflix or YouTube 4k60 support
All will be revealed if and when we get BotW2.
I bet we will find out the BotW release date at E3 and that it will play in 4k or the least in1080 ultra.
@Zag_Man well recently Nintendo filled a patent that let a future console of her output 4K resolution, maybe the Switch sucessor is gonna be able to run games at 4K.
all this rumbling of 4K Switch, point to a Switch sucessor, not a Switch revision that can output 4K resolution.
4k is only good for movies, it's not needed for video games
The current switch can't make use of that output and sure as hell ain't future proof. It already lags at games that aren't even 720p, so what would you do with that 4K60? Can't even watch movies with it and even with, any basic TV now comes with "smart" functions, making a switch as media hub obsolete.
I guess it was too much to hope that people would shut up about the Switch Pro once the OLED was released....
This confirms what I suspected, that the OLED is just a stop-gap revision before we get a real hardware upgrade.
Output vs Performance.
I think we can stop here with this. ☺️
4K 60 seems well out of the scope of the current switch's specs. The PS5 still struggles to output 4K with all the bells and whistles, usually having to dip down to 30 FPS and it's running more advanced hardware than the switch is. So while it's technically capable, I don't see this being implemented...maybe for the small indie games.
@Giancarlothomaz Through NVidia DLSS, not native 4K, since there is no mobile SoC available that fits in a portable console without melting it to rubble.
It's the same with the new Steam deck. The dock will have DP1.4 and HDMI 2.0 that can support up to 8K, but the AMD SoC simply doesn't have the power to output this natively with a mere max. of 1.6 TFLOPS.
If it can actually reach that max. and keep it cool enough and not start throttling quickly. The Tegra X1 in Switch can also handle up to 1.5 TFLOPS, yet it's limited to 6-700 GLOPS handheld and 900GFLOPS - 1.0 TFLOPS docked.
So it's actually quite disappointing to see that this AMD SoC in Steam deck is not that much better than the NVidia Tegra X1 or its simply that the Tegra X1 is just a hell of a SoC that was way ahead of its time and still holding up well with today's mobile SoC's.
So if Steam deck is going to output 4K in the future, it will have to use DLSS scaling tech to do so.
You want true 4k 60hz buy a PC.Switch is perfect for me for what it is.You all dont really think Switch can possibly pull it off do You?Not in that price range I'm afraid.
I think a switch 2 is most likely now, march 2023 would be my guess, chip shortage probably puts next year off the table.
They weren't adding Bluetooth audio either...
I like some said the power is on the Switch GPU to go 4k/DLSS when Docked not when portable. No way such units can happen let alone power it. The GPU/CPU will go 720 or 1080p at the most when portable to control power constraints.
@HenHiro There's more...
Switch games from Nintendo themselves are usually super polished and textures are part of that. Games like SSBU and Kirby Star Allies boast high-quality textures for most part.
However that doesn't mean they'll be that high all the time. as there's still a memory llimit to handle. In simpler words, big games like Xenoblade 2 could really benefit from better memory. RAM helps with world management too.
Imagine something like Xenoblade 3 running with high textures to have a good impression of how 4K upscaling would make these games look even prettier.
A research on how much space (aka console size) a 4K-ready chipset will need to lead the size of the dock would be useful.
All of the 4K Switch rumors we've been hearing are just the successor to the Switch. Before Wii U was revealed there were rumors for years about a Wii HD ; it was just the Wii U.
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